Melee at Town Center Drive on Thanksgiving Eve

Thanksgiving is such a wonderful holiday. Family travels from near and far to be close to their loved ones and to celebrate all the good things in life.

But last week in Valencia, the celebrating got way out of control.

Picture the scene: the Wednesday before Thanksgiving is a busy but festive time. It’s an especially busy time for the restaurants, bars and shops on Town Center Drive as hundreds of SCV youths return from college and points far away to be with their families and meet up with their friends.

My two brothers and several of their friends were among the 200-500 youths celebrating that evening in and around BJ’s, SouthPoint, and Town Center Drive, and what they saw left them shaken for the rest of the weekend.

Around 11pm, one of the witnesses tells me, a fight between “a couple people” broke out. “A guy’s teeth were knocked out during the first fight,” the witness tells me. Sheriff’s Deputies were called to the scene and at least seven cars responded, according to the witness.

But the Deputies left, and just a few hours later, another, much larger and more violent fight broke out.

“There was a huge crowd of at least 150 people outside the bars as they closed.” A scuffle ensued around 2 am.

“One person was knocked to the ground next to the curb. As he was trying to pick himself up, someone came flying in from the side and stomped him on the side of the head into the asphalt,” the witness told me.

“He was seriously injured. There was a girl screaming ‘Oh my God’ as he was bleeding and motionless next to the curb.”

The witness says the Sheriff Deputies responded quickly to that fight as well, rolling seven cars to the location. A fire truck and ambulance followed, and the injured man was taken on a stretcher into the ambulance.

The witnesses tell me that shortly after the “curb stomping,” most of the fighters fled the scene. By the time Deputies arrived, the witnesses say the fighters had left. They saw only one person in handcuffs, and are unclear if anyone was arrested that night.

The fights at Town Center Drive are reminiscent of other bar & party brawls that spiral out of control in Santa Clarita. In August of 2008, another fight broke out in and around Town Center Drive. One of the victims in that fight lost consciousness “after allegedly being hit and kicked by several of the male suspects.”

Fights have also been reported in the past in and around the Greens, the now-defunct putting green located at Valencia & McBean.

Tragically, these party brawls can sometimes lead to murder. Almost two years to the day before the Wednesday brawls, 20 year old Canyon High grad Josh Pipho was attending a party at a Stevenson Ranch condominimum complex when 10-15 people got into a fight. In the resulting melee, Pipho was stabbed 16 times and driven over by a car. He died at the scene, and his alleged murderer, then 18 year old Michael Dean Stephens, is awaiting trial at Men’s Central Jail.

The Town Center Drive melee hasn’t been reported on by local media at all. I asked the Sheriff’s station for more information on these incidents -including arrests-, but have not received a response. CrimeReports.org, a website the SCV Sheriff’s Station has told the public to refer to, does show an “Assault” occurring on November 26 at 2 am, which is consistent with what the witnesses told me they saw.

The condition of the curb stomping victim is unknown.

One witness tells me that a large blood stain can still be seen at the site of the curb stomping on Town Center Drive. He thinks the Sheriff’s Deputies left the scene too soon, given the large amount of people partying in the bars and the street.

“I think the SCV Sheriff’s Deputies could have prevented the second fight. If the Sheriff’s had at least kept a few officers on site after the first fight, their presence alone could have helped,” he told me.

Either that or our local business establishment needs to hire some real security to prevent outbreaks of violence & pandemonium like this in the future.

Comments (12)

Timothy MyersDecember 1, 2009 at 11:42 am

Not to Monday morning quarterback the SD’s, but a better strategy at 11 pm would be to start checking ID’s for the crowd so they could disperse the under 18’s who would be subject to a curfew violation. Reduce the crowd, reduce the chance of trouble exponentially! Believe me the restaurants in the area will be on that because constant trouble at a location can lead to the revocation of a liquor license. Obviously the story was suppressed by all parties, since that is the last thing Westfield would want to see in the newspaper and on the internet just prior to Black Friday.

lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 12:53 pm

Staying on the scene longer with perhaps a couple of Sheriffs lingering, would have been the thing to do. The fact that a fight (perhaps with the same individuals) ensued just several hours later, shows that the officers didn’t do a thorough job of clearing the area out! Why don’t we have a P.D. yet? Our population is large enough (and will only get bigger) to support a P.D. as well as a S.D. They CAN work together and be much more effective, eh?

Timothy MyersDecember 1, 2009 at 2:08 pm

lvogel: The SD’s ARE Santa Clarita’s police force. The City pays a fee to the Sheriff’s department for law enforcement services, just like Palmdale, Lancaster, Malibu, West Hollywood, etc. If SC had a PD the SD’s would just patrol the county areas. This is much cheaper than having a PD (probably about 50%) because SC only has to cover a portion of the expensive areas of a law enforcement apparatus, like internal affairs, SWAT, detective bureaus, forensics, CSI, etc. Having these on a standalone basis would be prohibitively expensive or just done without. Plus, with a local PD the force would become highly politicized. Much less likely with a large, professional force like the LACo Sheriff’s.

lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 2:42 pm

So it’s either/or, not both? Why? Cost? I think that the SCV needs a larger police force. Either way the city will have to pay for it. You indicate that it’s about 50% cheaper right now. What I see are crimes in this valley that don’t get solved and those are worth spending more money on. You get what you pay for and whatever % the city pays to the LACo Sheriffs right now, I don’t feel is helping. Of course that’s just my opinion. I still feel they can work together; the sheriffs after all have jurisdiction through out the ENTIRE county, whereas the P.D. only in the city limits. I dont’ believe the sheriffs would be limited. BTW, isn’t the ’sheriff’ of a country elected? I believe that the Police Chief is appointed, if I’m not mistaken.

JeffDecember 1, 2009 at 3:02 pm

TM, I call BS. The reason the city outsources its police force, its fire force, its bus drivers is very simple: they don’t want to deal with labor unions. Period. End of story. “Much less likely with a large, professional force like the LACo Sheriff’s.” As if the LASD isn’t politicized

lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 3:21 pm

“’sheriff’ of a country elected?” oops, meant to type COUNTY.

cashDecember 1, 2009 at 3:26 pm

Welcome to the new SCV AKA the SFV sprawl. We may be too business friendly in SCV. As Timmy said, these kinds of situations are not good for business. I would only add, so let’s keep them quiet. Item 22 of the 21 point plan!

lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 3:30 pm

“As Timmy said, these kinds of situations are not good for business.”….or for the citizens of the sprawling SCV!

Timothy MyersDecember 1, 2009 at 4:00 pm

lvogel: A PD would have jurisdiction within the municipal limits. The SD would only get involved under some type of mutual aid agreement in an emergency. Jeff: All of these entities are unionized, so is it a bad deal to pay less and have other people deal with the unions?

JaneDecember 1, 2009 at 6:00 pm

What do you guys think of the LASD asking for donations? According to the ad I saw, you can now get a neat little license plate frame and sticker that states that you donate to the SCV Sheriff’s Station. How are they going to write someone a ticket who has donated $1k to them, sounds a little off the mark.

JoeDecember 2, 2009 at 10:36 am

I’m not surprised to hear such a brawl took place in Santa Clarita, especially on that given night. I graduated from Hart in the 90’s and these “night before Thanksgiving” get-togethers have been going on at least since back then. In my day, about ten years ago, these big meetings mostly took place around Lyons (Doc’s, the bar near Kragen at Lyons and Old Orchard whose name escapes me, etc). It basically boils down to people being home from college getting together with all those who haven’t gone away and are still living in town. Among many young males in SCV fighting is a pastime and it gets particularly out of control when people from other parts of town show up (for example, if young guys from Saugus and Canyon Country showed up to Town Center Drive, there’d be problems). I can also remember when the Greens opened and the group I knew back then instantly began fighting there. By that time I had been living out of SCV but I certainly heard all about it. It sounds like the next generation is carrying on this so-called “tradition”. These types of fights are probably not unique historically, young men being what they are, and SCV continues to be no exception.

lvogelDecember 2, 2009 at 3:08 pm

That’s a sad statement about our “young men being what they are”, Joe. Is fighting each other really a ‘past time’ for our young people? If this is a ‘tradition’, surely the Sheriffs know from past experience what will be happening on that eve, right? Is this fighting possibly being allowing in some way?

Timothy MyersDecember 1, 2009 at 11:42 am
Not to Monday morning quarterback the SD’s, but a better strategy at 11 pm would be to start checking ID’s for the crowd so they could disperse the under 18’s who would be subject to a curfew violation. Reduce the crowd, reduce the chance of trouble exponentially! Believe me the restaurants in the area will be on that because constant trouble at a location can lead to the revocation of a liquor license. Obviously the story was suppressed by all parties, since that is the last thing Westfield would want to see in the newspaper and on the internet just prior to Black Friday.
lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Staying on the scene longer with perhaps a couple of Sheriffs lingering, would have been the thing to do. The fact that a fight (perhaps with the same individuals) ensued just several hours later, shows that the officers didn’t do a thorough job of clearing the area out! Why don’t we have a P.D. yet? Our population is large enough (and will only get bigger) to support a P.D. as well as a S.D. They CAN work together and be much more effective, eh?
Timothy MyersDecember 1, 2009 at 2:08 pm
lvogel: The SD’s ARE Santa Clarita’s police force. The City pays a fee to the Sheriff’s department for law enforcement services, just like Palmdale, Lancaster, Malibu, West Hollywood, etc. If SC had a PD the SD’s would just patrol the county areas. This is much cheaper than having a PD (probably about 50%) because SC only has to cover a portion of the expensive areas of a law enforcement apparatus, like internal affairs, SWAT, detective bureaus, forensics, CSI, etc. Having these on a standalone basis would be prohibitively expensive or just done without. Plus, with a local PD the force would become highly politicized. Much less likely with a large, professional force like the LACo Sheriff’s.
lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 2:42 pm
So it’s either/or, not both? Why? Cost? I think that the SCV needs a larger police force. Either way the city will have to pay for it. You indicate that it’s about 50% cheaper right now. What I see are crimes in this valley that don’t get solved and those are worth spending more money on. You get what you pay for and whatever % the city pays to the LACo Sheriffs right now, I don’t feel is helping. Of course that’s just my opinion. I still feel they can work together; the sheriffs after all have jurisdiction through out the ENTIRE county, whereas the P.D. only in the city limits. I dont’ believe the sheriffs would be limited. BTW, isn’t the ’sheriff’ of a country elected? I believe that the Police Chief is appointed, if I’m not mistaken.
JeffDecember 1, 2009 at 3:02 pm
TM, I call BS. The reason the city outsources its police force, its fire force, its bus drivers is very simple: they don’t want to deal with labor unions. Period. End of story. “Much less likely with a large, professional force like the LACo Sheriff’s.” As if the LASD isn’t politicized
lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 3:21 pm
“’sheriff’ of a country elected?” oops, meant to type COUNTY.
cashDecember 1, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Welcome to the new SCV AKA the SFV sprawl. We may be too business friendly in SCV. As Timmy said, these kinds of situations are not good for business. I would only add, so let’s keep them quiet. Item 22 of the 21 point plan!
lvogelDecember 1, 2009 at 3:30 pm
“As Timmy said, these kinds of situations are not good for business.”….or for the citizens of the sprawling SCV!
Timothy MyersDecember 1, 2009 at 4:00 pm
lvogel: A PD would have jurisdiction within the municipal limits. The SD would only get involved under some type of mutual aid agreement in an emergency. Jeff: All of these entities are unionized, so is it a bad deal to pay less and have other people deal with the unions?
JaneDecember 1, 2009 at 6:00 pm
What do you guys think of the LASD asking for donations? According to the ad I saw, you can now get a neat little license plate frame and sticker that states that you donate to the SCV Sheriff’s Station. How are they going to write someone a ticket who has donated $1k to them, sounds a little off the mark.
JoeDecember 2, 2009 at 10:36 am
I’m not surprised to hear such a brawl took place in Santa Clarita, especially on that given night. I graduated from Hart in the 90’s and these “night before Thanksgiving” get-togethers have been going on at least since back then. In my day, about ten years ago, these big meetings mostly took place around Lyons (Doc’s, the bar near Kragen at Lyons and Old Orchard whose name escapes me, etc). It basically boils down to people being home from college getting together with all those who haven’t gone away and are still living in town. Among many young males in SCV fighting is a pastime and it gets particularly out of control when people from other parts of town show up (for example, if young guys from Saugus and Canyon Country showed up to Town Center Drive, there’d be problems). I can also remember when the Greens opened and the group I knew back then instantly began fighting there. By that time I had been living out of SCV but I certainly heard all about it. It sounds like the next generation is carrying on this so-called “tradition”. These types of fights are probably not unique historically, young men being what they are, and SCV continues to be no exception.
lvogelDecember 2, 2009 at 3:08 pm
That’s a sad statement about our “young men being what they are”, Joe. Is fighting each other really a ‘past time’ for our young people? If this is a ‘tradition’, surely the Sheriffs know from past experience what will be happening on that eve, right? Is this fighting possibly being allowing in some way?