September 11, 2009 – Daily Brief

Blah Blah Blah. You can guess which article. They same people that take your money to pay taxes and then play with the more in the form of giving back to the community. When we see checks written from their perssonal accounts, we can offer praise. Great!

CSI: Las Vegas

Blah Blah Blah. Cash, we’ve heard it all before from you. You seem to be obsessed with some of the SCV residents. Give it a rest and post something original.

Jeff, just curious if you were part of the ‘Lance’ groupies yesterday at Griffith Park? Kinda of expected to see on the scene photo’s posted here this morning. Knowing what a big cycle fan you are, if you didn’t get to be part of it, sorry for bringing it up…..

I’m wondering what was McKeon’s thoughts about Wilson’s blatant disrespect to our President in those chambers. No other president has been shouted at like that before. McKeon explains why this man called him a LIAR, but not what he thought about the outburst. Also, I’d like McKeon to point out in the bill where the President (or anyone else involved with it) indicates that this includes immigrants. This is a bill about the rights of U.S. citizens, last I heard, yet somehow the illigal immigrant rant got involved, how? Where is this information coming from? And again, where in this bill does it say all U.S. citizens and illegal immigrants.

The premise of the Republican’s claim is flawed. Will the bill “cover” illegals? Technically yes, because federal law says emergency rooms have to treat anyone who comes into hospitals. You can’t turn away someone just because they are illegal. But the bills also say that illegal aliens will be required to reimburse the gov for any expenses. The fact check organizations say obama isn’t lying. That’s the way I’ve heard it explained anyway Useful website: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

Money, How about you post something that adds value. We all know you are obsessed with what I have to say. How about you move to something original.

The way I understand it is that although the bill excludes illegal immigrants, it does not require proof of citizenship. Until proof is required, you can bet your bottom tax dollar, you will be paying for treatment of illegals. The reality is that this bill is addressing insurance. Is it the right path? I don’t know. What I do know is that Emergency rooms are closing under the burden and we are already paying for medical treatment of the uninsured. I also know that we need some sort of reform. A person without insurance shouldn’t have to pay 2 to 3 times more for the same treatment as an insured person. Insurance companies shouldn’t just drop you if they don’t like your illness, or you change jobs. Preexisting conditions shouldn’t cause a person to lose their home. I heard somewhere that 50% of the bankruptcies in the country are caused by some sort of medical issue. That is just unacceptable. My sister drives a school bus for a district that doesn’t provide insurance. The pay isn’t enough for her to afford insurance and her husband was laid off in January from his trucking job that did have insurance. Both have medical issues. Now what do they do? We need reform folks. I don’t know if this is the right plan or not, but if the Democrats didn’t bring it up, the Republicans would never address this very REAL problem. I had a phone call last night for a town hall phone conference by Tom Cambell. Once he said he had a plan of his own, I wondered where the hell was this plan before Obama took office? A dollar late and a dollar short. Pathetic.

Jeff says, Correct, problem is illegals will not be able to afford to pay for the emergency room services or reimburse the government, therefore the burden is placed on the rest of us anyway. Jeff, you have pointed to the reason the wording in a bill is so critical. Now if the bill read illegals will have to reimburse the government or face deportation, the bill would have teeth. Those words will never be present, as they would not allow the wiggle room the Kennedy clan and others wants.

Medicare several years ago required certain documents to proof citizienship. What happened was numerous people were denied medicare, because they could not provide all of the documentation required. Medicare a couple of years ago stopped this particular program. If a person who is not lawfully has a serious contagious disease, wouldn’t it be more economically to have them get medical treatment and prevent the spread of the disease/sickness/infection. Also, the law which requires emergecy medical treatment of any one was signed into law in 1986, by President Reagan.

No. Did your suggestion stop the swine flu.

Nope! However, I bet by people seeking medical treatment it helped reduce the spread of H1 N1 Flu.

I liked that the President actually brought up the Emergency Room ‘overload’. Many hospitals have closed because they must treat EVERYONE. They try to collect anyway they can, however that is an upward battle in most cases. People go to the emergency room and sit for many hours for care because they know that they will not be turned away (rejected) from receiving care to treat their health needs. Yes, it’s the same for illegals in our country, however because that issue is brought up so often, the millions of CITIZENS that go to our emergency room because they have no health care is most often forgoten and that fact is forgoten by the men and women sitting in congress and senate who have the best health cared in our country!!! I say, let them sit in an emergency room for hours to treat an illnes; either them or their loved ones…… CHILDREN! My mother sat often with my siblings and I for health care she could never afford or receive. IT’S NOT FUN and everyone knows that only second class citizens or IMMIGRANTS can’t afford health care! The system is scewed toward the very rich or very poor, it’s that simple. It needs to change!

H1 N1 Flu funny C, but the answer is still no. We need reform, but not for illegal’s that are draining the various social net programs and have no right to be here.

CC – I agree with your points. The illegal issue is a real sore spot for many Americans since indeed many are not on the tax roles . . . but as you note, they are still treated in our emergency rooms and that’s creates a burden for Americans in any event. Why not be forthright and just deal with it . . . since after all, these illegals are being employed by Americans at their homes and at their businesses to ‘lower cost’ for such services as gardening, fast food, maids, hotel workers, and having come from the construction industry, they are in every trade . . . all working to reduce cost to ‘legal’ Americans for the services provided. What’s fair about that? And indeed, Republicans for the most part don’t want government involvement in any reform of health case . . . they’ve had 15 years since 1994 and nothing to speak of for reforming a system that still sees 40 million plus Americans without insurance. And for the 50% of Americans that declare bankruptcy even with insurance! Like it nor not, the ‘anti-tax’ movement in America is not taking into account the ‘demands’ if they place on government services including our public schools. We need a full disclosure from all politicians on the cost issues beyond the partisan reticals.

And the reason we wait for hours for an emergency is because so many people use the emergency room as urgent care.

I have no problem providing emergency care to anyone in need, citizen or not. BUT…after they are stable, they should find their way on a plain, train, boat, bus back to their home country.

Navigator, I agree with you. A couple of years ago we took my daugther to the Henry Mayo ER. I was advised that since we had insurance, that we should go to an urgent care facility instead. My daughter possibly need stitches on her forehead near her hairline. however, we waited at the ER, because it was possible that instead of stitches, the doctor could apply derma bond instead, which I was informed the urgent care didn’t carry. Anyways, it took 5 hours for her to get her stitches…the cut was to wide for dermabond and when the bill came, it was close to a $1000. the doctor maybe saw her for a total of 10 minutes (which included the stitching). I was fortunate that my co-pay for the ER was only $50. Now whenever possible I go to urgent care, because my co-pay is only $10

The policy over the last 30 years is to basically import poverty. Meanwhile, the people who have education and means enter the country legally, but are put on waiting lists that last upwards around 5 or 6 YEARS. As a result, the toll on our hospitals, school systems, & law enforcement are beyond breaking. We can’t keep ignoring these problems and the policies need to change. Legal immigration should be easier, and borders should be protected. Illegal aliens should be deported and the country needs healthcare reform.

CC – one of the issues in play with migration is that people move from areas of ‘low resources’ to areas of ‘high resources’ for survival. That’s been going on every since homo sapiens figured out how to use their ‘legs’ to walk . . . And thus, many assume the illegal issue is just an exercise in writing down a ‘law’ in a room either in Sacramento or Washington that prohibits illegal immigration but ignores the primary ‘driver’ of why it’s happening. This to me is why many people complain that no matter what laws are passed; things continue to get worse . . . but this isn’t at all surprising to me. By ignoring the ‘reality’ and just playing to the ‘legality’, we stay mired in the legal issue while ignoring the resource issue that provides the motivation for the migration. I’m sure any American in similar circumstances faced with ‘supporting’ their family would do what is necessary to make that happen . . . even if

if it included migrating to Mexico of the resource availability issue was reversed.

Indy, you always ASSUME that we don’t understand the drivers of illegal aliens. Of course we understand the drivers and I feel for these people. Be we simply can’t take on all the issues of the world, especially when we are in deep trouble ourselves.

At the end of the day CC, it just might be useful if we as Americans started talking publicly about the driver . . . growing populations in areas of limited resources. As you might expect, this realization goes against ‘American Folklore’ and until the public at large gets past folklore and into reality, nothing will change, ever . . . Additionally, the issue of population growth has huge implications for many of the world’s major religions . . . and thus our politicians lack the courage to deal with them on this issue as well . . . thus, nothing will change, ever . . . Knowledge is the key here . . . but without inclusion of this issue into the public square beyond simply reciting that laws are broken, nothing will change, ever. And the only cost to the public is the time to learn and understand the issue.

Question: Who here has visited an Urgent Care that did not require insurance?

I will gladly pay for illegal immigrants from any country to obtain medical care here in the United States. I can sacrifice. I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I just give a shit.

And can people stop using the term “illegal immigrants” and say what they really mean? THOSE MEXICANS seems to sum it up.

I think it’s great that you want to help out Mexicans. But the illegal alien issue is more than just Mexicans. The fact is that they come from all over the world. If you REALLY gave a shit, you would write a check to world charities (or Mexican charities if you prefer) to help those who don’t have the means to make the track here. But my guess is that when you say you’ll gladly pay, you don’t really mean that YOU’LL gladly pay. You mean that you want everyone else to pay. What ‘payment’ means in this issue is that your kids don’t get a great education because the class has to deal with non-English speaking students, and you’ll have to pay to sit in an Emergency room across town for 6 hours while you kid is miserable. Then there is the payment of housing thousands of Gang-Bangers in the justice system that have no business being here and were incarcerated when they violated someone else’s rights. I wonder if it were YOUR rights that were violated if you would still ‘give a shit.’ My guess is that you don’t give a shit, but you just like to talk shit.

CC brings up good points regarding economic ‘scarcity’. The Americans who hire illegals to ‘save money’ only pass the ‘bigger picture’ cost to other citizens as CC notes. In any event, the larger picture of curbing population growth in developing nations without enough resources creating the migration pressure is a concept unknown to most Americans (I know you CC get this issue) and an issue our ‘leaders’ won’t discuss out in the open. Until that changes, this issue with overwhelmed public services here in the US will continue to haunt us . . . since our local legislators will not raise taxes to cover the cost of the additional illegals studens in our schools thus creating overcrowded conditions for ‘all student’, legal or not. Trying to solve our problems at the ideology level doesn’t solve anything . . .

So again, my question and perhaps I’ll elaborate more. How many have gone to an Urgent Care (aka Doctor’s Office) and have gotten coverage without insurance? How many have gone to this type of facility and have been able to get their children vacinated, without insurance. Mike C brought up his daughters need for possible stitches and took her to emergency for the care. He had to pay a $50.00 copay instead of the $10.00 copay he would have paid at an Urgent Care (doctors office). MikeC has insurance, so I’m not talking about the $ dollar difference between Emergency or Doctor’s office care. I’m talking about NOT HAVING INSURNACE, and trying to get medical care (vacinations, stitches, treatment for infections, prenatal care, etc, etc…) at these offices WITHOUT INSURANCE. The first thing they ask is do you have insurance and what type? If you say no, you’ll here “oh, um, well, wait a minute let me speak to the doctor”. Then they will tell you how much the cost would be to get treatment..cough, cough. Then you still have possible pharmaceutical costs. The very poor qualify for Medicare. The very rich have insurance (or could pay for such services out of pocket). However, the millions of middle class that no longer have insurance and don’t have the extra funds to pay for these health care services, ARE SCREWED! Oh yeah, hope that you or your family members are only ‘sick’, ’cause paying for rehabilitation, on-going treatments or surgical procedures will no doubt BANKRUPT. So, yes many (lets drop the illegal talk please) people (families and children) are without health insurance and they only way they can get their needs met when most needed, is to got to the emergency room, because doctors offices won’t take you unless you can pay the entire bill right then and there!

GangFang Not al IA are Mexicans GF.

Let’s not drop the illegal talk. They are a major portion of the root cause of our financial problems. To ignore this fact is to ingore the real desire to fix the proplem.

So, if we were to take all the illegals and send them back to their home countries…ALL of them, we would no longer have a problem with the millions of ‘citizens’ that have no health care?

The millions that don’t qualify for insurance because their income isn’t high enough, or don’t qualify for welfare because they make too much?

No, we would still have a problem, it would just be easer to manage and those that deserve the care would not have to compete with those that do not. We need reform, we have no disagreement there.

Cash: Let’s not drop the illegal talk. They are a major portion of the root cause of our financial problems. To ignore this fact is to ingore the real desire to fix the proplem. Question: why do Americans hire illegals knowing the problems you state?

lvogel: The millions that don’t qualify for insurance because their income isn’t high enough, or don’t qualify for welfare because they make too much? Yes, this is one of the major drivers of the problem in that many Americans will never earn enough money to buy health insurance regardless of how many jobs they hold or how hard they work. It would have been nice if the ‘leaders’ would have discussed in more detail what is driving up the premiums including age demographics, technology, end of life decisions, and so forth. And to be honest, this reform will not be ‘free’ . . . taxes are going to have to go up to cover those without insurance. Those that advocate ‘no new taxes’ will not be part of the solution.

Question: why do Americans hire illegals knowing the problems you state? Good question.

NickelDime, Your main point is excellent. Why not move in a cautious manner? The only thing I can assume is that under the current situation in our politics, everything is generally a ‘all or nothing’. Either pass a bill or do nothing. The effort, however, is not totally missing as we see with the recent passage of laws allowing people in Washington and Oregon to ‘die with dignity’. In both cases, the laws are working as intended . . . there’s no ‘death panels’ just a few people, I believe less than 200 in each state per year, that have chosen this path to die with some sense of dignity when terminally ill. So the precedent for action as you note is there and it works. As I noted above, the reform in health care won’t be ‘tax free’ as both sides either wish or want. You can’t move resources in the economy for some 40 million uninsured for ‘free’. So the politicians are being disingenuous on this particular issue. From my own experience from watching politics for some 40 years is that most politicians are not logical or have a lot of business accumen. They are mostly attorneys that take the role of ‘salesman’ to push ideology agendas that more often than not, don’t meet reality. Not sure how we’re going to change this under the current situation where most Americans simply don’t pay attention to things beyond slogans . . .

Cash, my guess is that most Americans simply don’t know the cost of things. For example, I’ve been following the cost per student in our state’s k-12 educational system for decades and have found that most folks don’t know that cost nor do the politicians of either party wish to tell them. At present, the average cost here in CA is about $10,800 (found in the 2009 FACT BOOK at the State Dept. of Education). Thus, an illegal putting one child in school is expensive for other taxpayers since that person may not pay any taxes other than sales taxes that are quite small for low incomes. Somebody making $10 an hour cash may pay perhaps $400 a year in total sales taxes . . . far below what is needed for even one child. But likewise, even legal Americans have trouble understanding the ‘demands’ they place on government. A checker at the local market noted to me that her taxes were ‘too high’. I asked how many kids she had . . . 5. So I asked: are you paying the state about $55,000 per year to handle the demand you’re placing on the state? She just looked puzzled and said no. Until our leaders make a point of disclosing such ‘demand cost’, we’re never getting out of the taxing ‘pissing contest’ ever . . . since people that are demanding more services than they are paying for are still complaining they are paying too much . . . And the illegal issue just makes this chaos more so . . .

It would be great to get a grip on the homelessness of familes NickleDime; that too is something close to my heart. However, because of the high cost of healthcare and services, many families must choose between shelter or health. It’s a choice that some are faced with when a loved one becomes ill and they have no insurance. Many lose their homes due to the financial burden health care/treatment costs.

I stopped doing the anonymous back and forth internet debate thing years ago. Bears no fruit, and political chest puffing does nothing for me.

“Not al IA are Mexicans GF.” To clarify, that was EXACTLY my point.

Indy. I agree with you. Problem is the issue goes beyond education. We long ago reached the point where we (the government) can’t even afford the basic services that most reasonable people believe should be delivered. Yet, we still have those that make wild demands for more without regard for what they may cost. We are an entitlement geared society that is about to have a rude awakening.

I agree Cash about the issue with people demanding more than they can afford . . . And that’s makes it all the more interesting that our leaders don’t use ‘price’, the very mechanism that ‘limits’ demand in the ‘free market’, in helping the public understand the ‘cost’ of services they ‘demand’ from government’ Education is just the easiest ‘line of sight’ cost . . . in that every child sent to the state’s k-12 system on average cost about $11,000 per year per student . . . so any family can do the ‘math’ if you will: students in k-12 * $11,000 = cost of services demanded. Then the same family can see what PIT, Sales Taxes, and 40% of their property taxes ‘covered’ the cost of services they demanded from government. And I would ask that you take a moment and ask folks you know if they have any idea of this cost and what might it have done to their decision making process when you relate it to the taxes they pay.

I do ask those question Indy. No one cares, they just want what they want because they believe they are entitled. For example: I own a dog so I want a dog park, I play tennis so I want more tennis courts, I ride bikes so I want more bike lanes, my kids play ball so i want more ball fields, I like music so I want more concerts in the park, etc etc. None of which are basic services. . Seems the right thing to do would be to charge a fee to use these entitlements that were never intended to be covered by taxes.

It would be helpful if our legislators more appropriately linked the cost of services to our individual demands starting with public education since it accounts for about 40% of the budget. But from what I’ve seen in my 35+ years of watching politicians, they generally only give you ‘half’ the story . . . generally the ‘benefit’ but not wanting to disclose the cost. And people are just left complaining . . . unfortunate. And most politicians still believe we’re going to ‘grow ourselves’ out of the tough decisions . . . and just ignore economic scarcity . . . I’ve seen this for the same time period. As long as he public just uses political party affiliation and slogans to elect politicians, we’re probably screwed in the long run.