What McKeon will say about Health reform (and what you can say back)

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

On Saturday, Congressman Buck McKeon will host a Town Hall meeting on Health Care reform at College of the Canyons.

As an observer of all things political, I predict he will say the following:

America has “roots” of best health care system in the world: He’ll start from this premise, as he argued last month. With that premise, the “radical” changes the Democrats are proposing will seem unreasonable
He’ll acknowledge the need for reform: He’ll say that there are problems in the health care system and will mention that Republicans have a plan
His plan will include two things: Tort reform which he will say go towards reducing costs (by limiting how much you can sue for damages in case of malpractice) and allow health insurance companies to sell policies across state lines (which he will say is a market reform that encourages competition)
He may or may not address another important aspect of health care reform: portability (allowing you to keep health insurance after you leave your job) and “pre-existing condition” reform
He may or may not regurgitate the old tired “Death Panel” meme started by Sarah Palin back in July. You’ll recall he spoke on the House floor saying that the Democrats wanted seniors to meet with health care consultants to plan “how they’re going to die.”
He will use market-tested phrases like “government-takeover” and possibly “socialized” to create an emotional reaction in you. Democrats do this too, of course, but we’re not represented by a Democrat in the House.

Maybe he will surprise us with something new, but this is pretty much what he’s been saying all summer long whether its on the floor of the House, in op/eds for the Signal, on tele-town hall conference calls, and in the media.

However you feel about health care reform, it’s good to equip yourself with facts. McKeon says he wants to answer our questions, and knowing facts is a good way to frame questions. So here’s some facts about health insurance in California, Santa Clarita, and the 25th District:

California’s 25th District (which McKeon represents) has 639,088 residents in it. Of those, 17.3% have no health care insurance. That’s nearly 1 in 5 25th District residents with no coverage, or about 108,644 people 1
Santa Clarita fares somewhat better with nearly 1 in 6 people with no health care coverage. The US Census department says 15% of people ages 18-64 have no health care coverage while 8.6% of children under 18 have no coverage. That’s about 26,250 people here in the City of Santa Clarita who have no health insurance 2
Overall, nearly 20% (6.8 million) of Californians are uninsured 3

and more general facts about health care costs:

Worker wages rose 38% and inflation is up 28% since 1999.

60% of firms surveyed offered health coverage to workers.

21% of firms surveyed said they reduced the scope of benefits during the recession.

15% of firms surveyed expanded health benefits to workers.Since a decade ago, healthcare premiums have risen 131%. 4Worker wages rose 38% and inflation is up 28% since 1999.4
Since a decade ago, premiums have risen 131%.
60% of firms surveyed offered health coverage to workers. 4
21% of firms surveyed said they reduced the scope of benefits during the recession. 4
15% of firms surveyed expanded health benefits to workers. 4
Some 67% of Aemricans either “strongly” or “somewhat” favor establishing a “public health insurance option” 5
62.1 percent of all bankruptcies in 2007 had medical bills they could not pay 6

Finally, you might be interested to read what kind of health care coverage Buck McKeon receives as a US Congressman. I’m not sure I’d call it “Gold Plated,” but I’m sure many Santa Claritans would like even a fraction of the benefits he receives.

The meeting should last about an hour and a half. My guess is it will be crowded, this issue is pretty hot even in sleepy Santa Clarita.

And unlike his last “Town Hall” (a phone call with 90,000 listeners), this time it appears McKeon will not have a Republican sidekick to help out.

So he’ll be on the hot seat, so to speak.

Let’s make him earn his pay this weekend!

———————————————————

1. US Census Bureau via NPR http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113042669

2. US Census Bureau via Orange County Register: http://bit.ly/Pele1

3. US Census Bureau: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032009/health/h06_000.htm

4. Kaiser Family Foundation Tracking Poll April ’09: http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7891.pdf

5 . Kaiser Family Foundation Employer Health Benefits 2009 Annual Survey: http://ehbs.kff.org/?utm_source=kff&utm_medium=homepage_nn&utm_campaign=nn_091509_ehbs2009

6. American Journal of Medicine: http://bit.ly/avfbG

Comments (29)

cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Well, it is about time I had a better deal than the congressman. Don’t screw that up to Mr. Obama.

lvogelSeptember 24, 2009 at 2:11 pm

Here’s a bit of irony: The 75% that the ‘government’ pays to FEHBP , is funded by taxpayers. Many are he same taxpayers that can’t afford insurance!

Timothy MyersSeptember 24, 2009 at 2:46 pm

Shouldn’t we just yell “You Lie” over and over and over? Also, does the Congressional plan pay for hair replacement?

NervieSeptember 24, 2009 at 2:56 pm

We find is deplorable that our nation is ranked 37 in the world when it comes to healthcare coverage, our coverage costs twice as much as most industrialized nations, our pharmaceutical costs up to 400% and more than the next industrialized nations yet we boast that we have the best medical delivery system in the world. Well let the mental and fear mongering tactics and games begin . . . When I read that the US has employer provided healthcare insurance as an accident–it came about as a way to evade wage controls during World War II — it was not some grand principle have we forgotten along the way that healthcare is a human care. Not all states regulate their insurance companies as well as California does. This is a fact. But many companies already sell policies in other states, so what is the big deal about marketing and being more competitive in other states? This is a ruse. As long as the corporations have stockholders to answer to not only will healthcare continue to be a competitive commodity the companies will act in the best interest of the corporation it is called the “bottomline” . . . As for the Republicans, since 1974 even Nixon said that there was a need for healthcare reform . . . maybe the Republicans don’t want this generation of Democrats to get credit for this. Eight years have gone by, maybe the larger plan is to demonize Obama slashing and burning everything that he does, so they can eventually come back in 2012 and claim the passing of the healthcare reform for themselves. 70% of American say they want healthcare reform. Are they waiting on 90%? What some Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats don’t understand about the mandate for Obama, is there are a lot of voters out here sick of the partisan bullshit. Health is an equal opportunity divide and conqueror and it doesn’t care how much money you make, how much insurance you have, what your profession is, what party you belong to, what car you drive, what home you live in, your lifestyle, and your religiosity; without it, you will truly die. Respectfully yours, Minerva L. Williams

IHeartSCVSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:00 pm

Yeesh, so shrill with the tone and the red and all. Where is your concern over how this will all be paid for? Over the constitutionality of requiring Americans to buy insurance? Over how this will all be paid for? Over the fact that the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said yesterday that seniors will see their Medicare benefits cut under healthcare reform plans? Over, yet again, how this will all be paid for? Also, why are you citing a poll from 5 months ago? Hasn’t a lot changed since then?

JeffSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:17 pm

How was I shrill I Heart? I marked the red because I couldn’t figure out how to make it small subscript like you do with your footnotes. But whatever, continue with your mis-characterization. As for how to pay for it? Hundreds of billions will be saved over 10 years by restructuring existing federal health expenditures. Obama has covered that so often. Some of it will undoubtedly be paid for by raising taxes back to Clinton-era levels. Were the 90s bad for your family? He has pledged to not “add a dime” to federal deficit. He’s talking to fiscal cons like you. Whether you don’t believe him or not is your concern, but he is addressing your argument. Finally, I think a poll from April is better than a poll now. Five months of screaming and mis-characterization on both sides prejudices polling. Kind of like tainting a jury pool.

cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:28 pm

I think the idea is that you take from those that have, and give to those that don’t. I think there is a word that defines how this works. Many in this country will not be happy until we are all wearing the same drab uniforms, driving cars of equal value and all living in 1000 square foot homes. That way we can all survive on a high school education, or less, and need not work hard to get ahead. We can all be equally miserable and not complain about it..

Timothy MyersSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:44 pm

Cash: How did you get by the death panel again? Also, why is it that most of the people who scream at the town hall meetings are fat-assed, middle aged white guys. Do they know the death panel won’t treat their Type 2 diabetes since they induced it with their lifestyle? I noticed that I started to get more progressive when I reduced my BMI from above 31 to below 25. Coincidence? I think not!

cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 4:39 pm

Timmy: I think those fat-assed, middle aged white guys, some that are probably your friends or customers, are tired of seeing the things they have worked long and hard to acquire, taken from them in one form or another. I have not been confronted with a death panel, but I can tell you that if such a panel existed, and if they decided to deny life prolonging treatment, their would be more than one death associated with my ailment. BTW Timmy, you look much older than a guy that is only in his late forties early fifties, BMI of 25 or not.

lvogelSeptember 24, 2009 at 4:44 pm

I don’t want us all wearing the “same drab uniforms”, Cash. I just want us to be able to have the same insurance that the members of Congress, the Senate, many government workers and all their families have. They can keep their drabby uniforms….

cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 4:59 pm

Well, I assume the insurance they have is considered one of the benefits they receive for working for the government. You can have the same benefit if you want to work for the government. Many of the Senators live in million dollar plus homes, do you want one of those? I am fine with everyone having the same insurance as the government employees, but I am not OK being penalized to satisfy the wants of others. I say that even though I am sure you know that I am not a fan of the government.

lvogelSeptember 24, 2009 at 5:49 pm

I’m confused Cash. What are the ‘wants of others’ you are referring to? Yeah, I pretty much want our youth to be healthy. I want their parents to be around (and healthy) for as long as their able to be. I want the U.S. to truly compete with other countries in this area. Is it wrong to ‘want’ good, affordable and available health care for everyone? Perhaps we should ALL work for the Government? Oh wait, they work for us, right? We pay their salaries (average salary in congress is $174,000.00). So those million dollar homes, we paid for . Lets not forget the amount of vacation they get also. Oh yeah, and the ‘perks’ that lobbyists provide for them. Okay, Okay I’m getting the picture now. WE SHOULD ALL WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT. Come on everyone, lets go fill out those applications….anyone.

IndySeptember 24, 2009 at 7:33 pm

Thanks for the stats Jeff. I would only ask that McKeon explain that if indeed Republicans seen a need to fix the health care system, why have they been waiting 14 years for the effort? Likewise, during all of McKeon’s term in Congress, what some 15 years or so, he’s never voted against a RNC position yet he says he’s looking for bipartian support? Please . . . Anyway, any health care reform is going to cost both the taxpayers and the health insurance industry money thus the resistance by the conservatives in Congress.

IHeartSCVSeptember 24, 2009 at 7:55 pm

I didn’t mean shrill-shrill, I meant the kind of shrill that my subconscious projects on many comments I read of the liberal persuasion, mostly your stuff about preemptive responses to as yet unoffered talking points and arguments about people needing to be insured just because they aren’t. “He has pledged to not ‘add a dime’ to federal deficit. He’s talking to fiscal cons like you. Whether you don’t believe him or not is your concern, but he is addressing your argument.” Indeed, I don’t believe him. There’s a story in Bloomberg today about how inept the Congressional Budget Office is at estimating the costs of legislative actions. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=axAynyxJQILE There are many cases of them overestimating how much money a measure needs (in some cases by a factor of ten), but the only case of them underestimating came when private drug companies competed for marketshare, driving down the costs of drugs for consumers such that a medicare measure became cheaper. I seriously doubt that a public healthcare option is going to be cheaper than expected and that 2/3 of its costs will be covered by spending cuts and greater efficiency. Anyhow, are you planning to ask Buck a question at the meeting?

cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 8:27 pm

Ivogel, The point was not that we should all work for the government. The point was that we need to find our own way and not expect others to pick up the tab. Of course you knew that! My coverage is better than what the government offers and I do not want to see coverage cut, coverage that I worked hard to acquire, to fund some freeloaders insurance. If Obama can cover the millions he has pledged to cover without impacting my coverage, then fine. Problem is Obama has no idea if he can live up to his promise. As I said, I am not a fan of government, local, county, state or federal.

Fred ButlerSeptember 25, 2009 at 7:15 am

without it, you will truly die. Unless you believe Obama’s health care plan will impart magical qualities of health and wealth, like Benny Hinn, even with the best health care in the world (if there is such a thing), you will still die.

lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 8:40 am

You’re right Fred Butler, we will die. It’s part of life. However, why can’t people have a ‘healthy’ life while they are here? Necessary health care and medications are what’s needed to live. I appreciate my health care and am thankful to have insurance; if I didn’t my LIFE would be very different. That being said, there are so many out there that work as hard as those that have (perhaps even harder) and still cannot afford health care. Many either make too much to qualify for medicare (welfare) and not enough to afford insurance. Not every company offers health insurance. If you work part time, forget it. I know I may be repeating myself, but oh well….Growing up my mother often had to work 2 or 3 jobs just to support and give my 2 siblings and I, shelter and food. She made too much to qualify for welfare and too little to provide good health care. Often she would have to wait until we got terribly ill, to take us to the emergency room for treatment. When she decided she had to train in something that would allow her a good paying job with insurance, she had to quit a job or two in order to qualify for welfare. During that 2 year period she went to school. She finally got her higher paying job with benefits, but it came with a price. She became one of those ‘freeloaders’ that is so often thrown around about those who are attempting to just eat, live in a home and raise their children and keep their children HEALTHY! Those that have health care/insurance, don’t feel that anything is wrong right now and they don’t want to loose what they have. To some extent I agree, however there are so many without, and that’s who I worry about. I’m not worried that I’ll loose what I have; I’m worried about all those CITIZENS that don’t have to begin with. OH, and don’t get me started on Hinn. His ‘ministry’…cough, cough….takes in over 200 million dollars a year. I’d like to know how all those people he ‘saved’ are doing today; are they still blind, paralyzed, diabetic, etc…… I can’t believe you compared good affordable HEALTH CARE with this guy!

cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:12 am

Ivogel, it is you that placed your mother in the freeloader category. Her situation does not meet the definition I have in my mind. 1.One who does not contribute or pay appropriately; one who gets a free ride, etc. without paying a fair share. You are throwing the term around, others may have a more defined term. I am glad your mom found a way to get your family through the early challenges of life. She lived an example from which others can learn.

lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:28 am

On the contrary Cash…all anyone had to hear (during those years) was WELFARE, or free school lunch and they immediately catagorized my family, just as they do now. There are so many that rely on Welfare in order to live. Are there people that abuse the system, yes. Are there people that want a ‘free ride’, yes! However there are MANY families that were no different then mine was YEARS AGO, that are trying to LIVE. Those are the ones that get labeled as wanting “others to pick up the tab for them”(your words not mine). Please define what you mean by ‘the tab’. Explain to me how so many of our CITIZENS can achieve what my mother did, without relying on others?

cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:43 am

I thought I made that clear. But to be more precise, deadbeats that make little or no effort to pay their own way, and believe they are entitled to more.

lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:58 am

Here’s a link to a website that despells many of the myths about welfare recipients. http://hcom.csumb.edu/welfare/resources/myths_facts.html

cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 11:04 am

Do you have more recent data? Is this another Acorn type group?

lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 11:25 am

okay Cash, the copyright date of this site is 2009….recent enough for you! http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/myths.html BTW, it sure helps these families that need this assistance to associate them with the mentioned group…..sigh…..that’s sadly how the labeling/stereotyping begins….sigh….

cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 11:50 am

And your point is? We can throw statistics back and forth if you like. There is plenty of government data available. I find it interesting that you slap lobbyist that oppose your belief system, but you do not mind the use of data from groups that lobby in favor of your view, sigh! The issue was health care and whether or not deadbeats should be covered at the expensive of others. My response is no. You seem to be saying that everyone should have health care no matter how or by whom the cost is covered. You also seem to be saying that those that have worked hard and are able to have good health insurance may need to give up some of that benefit to pay for coverage for others. I get it. I came from humble beginnings, much like you, except that my parents stayed together. The experience led us to a difference of opinion, belief system and outlook. I vowed not to live that way as an adult, and I have not.

lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 12:26 pm

Should deadbeats get dollars from the government they don’t deserve , no. There will always be people, because of greed, that will take advantage of a program that is in place to help those that truly need it. I will not however catergorize those hard working men and women (who need help) as deadbeats, even those that are single parents trying to raise children who can live and learn, as you and I both have.

cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 12:39 pm

I agree, hard working men and women are not deadbeats.

IndySeptember 25, 2009 at 4:50 pm

Cash, I respect your views but the conservative position that ‘all’ people without say healthcare are ‘deadbeats’ or ‘slackers’ simply defies reality . . . thus to deny the vast majority of Americans without healthcare seems misplaced and inappropriate. There’s no question that people of this nature exist throughout society . . . including politicians, fireman, police, carpenters, and on and on . . . Saying that we can’t provide certain ‘basic’ services like healthcare fearing that a ‘slacker’ would benefit is unrealistic. Auditors exist to enforce ‘rules’ that we as society set up and thus use as ‘test’ to keep people from abusing a given government program but no program, public or private, will be immune from abuse. Thus, using this criteria to defeat any type of health care reform from the uninsured is unreasonable. If our nation could solve it’s common problems with simple slogans in the nature of what you suggest, then we wouldn’t have any problems but we do . . . Like it or not, our ‘free market system’ has lots of problems and isn’t perfect. Assuming is it is also unrealistic. If we/you continue to assert that the few bozos in our society are the reason we can’t help hard working Americans with low paying jobs, then our society will never improve . . . ever . . . . as I’ve seen personally over the last 4 decades. Time got ‘get real’ . . . and real with reality.

cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 6:05 pm

Indy “the conservative position that ‘all’ people without say health care are ‘deadbeats’ or ‘slackers’ simply defies reality”. I do not believe I said this. I never said a “few bozos” either. And auditing or the lack there of has nothing to do with my position. What I said is that I don’t want my family health care reduced so that deadbeats or freeloaders can be covered. Having said this, I do not believe in socialism, nor do I believe that our country is neglecting very many. I have seen how the population of other parts of the world are treated. It is easy to see why people flock to this country. Yes the free market is not perfect, but it works much better if the government stays out of it. The recent housing (everyone come buy your home) debacle can be cited. Beyond that I have no comment. I am sure that you have heard all that can be said about the matter. Not much else is covered by the media.

IndySeptember 26, 2009 at 10:41 am

Cash, let’s see the totality of your remarks by revisiting them: Cash: I think the idea is that you take from those that have, and give to those that don’t. I think there is a word that defines how this works. Cash to Timmy: I think those fat-assed, middle aged white guys, some that are probably your friends or customers, are tired of seeing the things they have worked long and hard to acquire, taken from them in one form or another. Cash: but I am not OK being penalized to satisfy the wants of others Cash: The point was that we need to find our own way and not expect others to pick up the tab. Of course you knew that! Cash: it is you that placed your mother in the freeloader category. Her situation does not meet the definition I have in my mind. 1.One who does not contribute or pay appropriately; one who gets a free ride, etc. without paying a fair share. Cash: I thought I made that clear. But to be more precise, deadbeats that make little or no effort to pay their own way, and believe they are entitled to more. Cash: What I said is that I don’t want my family health care reduced so that deadbeats or freeloaders can be covered. I believe you summarized your points in the last quote . . . but as I noted, there will always be abuses of any program or service, public or private. But to constantly repeat that Americans don’t deserve health care because of a few bozos (Cash: I think there is a word that defines how this works. – call them what you like) is inappropriate and doesn’t really address the issue at hand. Many nations simply can’t afford to give their people anything especially in the third world. Those that ‘flock here’ do so for the money . . . but even that ignores resource constraints. In any event, the ‘free market’ fails in many cases and that’s why government exist, run by ‘us’ to regulate the ‘level playing field’ if you will so we don’t get screwed by high end investors like AIG who created ‘funny money’ paper which took about 40% of my 401K. Same with the housing cycle . . . politicians (not government per se . . . that’s us) decided to ‘look the other way’ on the loan markets since politicians tell us that we can ‘grow ourselves out of the tough decisions like higher taxes (which is obviously false). Look what the SEC under Bush did for years while being ‘advised’ that Madhoff was running a huge billion dollar scheme that Cox, appointed by Bush, did nothing . . . again, probably believing that the ‘taxes’ being generated by Madhoff would reduce the need for more taxes . . . and look at the folly of that position by a politician, not us, the government. So our government has sadly been run by ‘self serving political ideologues’ that don’t serve ‘our interest’ and thus repeating the slogans generated by their marketing departments like some of the slogans you’ve paraphrased solves nothing. Thus your statement that ‘Yes the free market is not perfect, but it works much better if the government stays out of it’ I suggest isn’t consistent with many of your other remarks and per the examples I noted, government lead by self serving ‘safe seat’ politicians created the financial mess where all stuck in . . . not us, the public . . . unless you consider and perhaps appropriately so that ‘we’ elected these ‘bozos’ into government and found that they are only looking out for themselves (witness Buck’s use of the ‘public option’ provided by my tax dollars to him) while at the same time reciting how government is bad . . . as you’ve suggested with the free market quote in this paragraph. In any event, the conservative position you echo comes in waves from Runner. Smyth, and McKeon, none of whom in my view really understand free markets nor the role of government yet they keep reciting their ‘anti-tax’, ‘anti-government’ hard core conservative positions that don’t address reality and we, the public, keep picking up the tab. I’m done with that . . . We’ll have a lot more to discuss on this in the days, months, and years ahead but I want to give the readers another view from your conservative positions that I see don’t work. Nobody wants to give anything to anyone who’s a ‘bozo’ but to assert as you do that this is the basis for not reforming health care seems misplaced. (PS – your viewpoints are presented with ‘your words’ . . . my views as based on mine . . . thus the ‘debate’ is in play . . . versus asserting that ‘you didn’t say this or that’ . . . when the totality of your views is looked at and then commented on by other posters. On the other board, the conservatives there simply start calling you a liar when you don’t use their ‘words’ . . . well, you, they, don’t limit my vocabulary or anyone else’s. And thus, as you did, you can simply clarify your points through debate which is the appropriate response and appreciated)

cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Well, it is about time I had a better deal than the congressman. Don’t screw that up to Mr. Obama.
lvogelSeptember 24, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Here’s a bit of irony: The 75% that the ‘government’ pays to FEHBP , is funded by taxpayers. Many are he same taxpayers that can’t afford insurance!
Timothy MyersSeptember 24, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Shouldn’t we just yell “You Lie” over and over and over? Also, does the Congressional plan pay for hair replacement?
NervieSeptember 24, 2009 at 2:56 pm
We find is deplorable that our nation is ranked 37 in the world when it comes to healthcare coverage, our coverage costs twice as much as most industrialized nations, our pharmaceutical costs up to 400% and more than the next industrialized nations yet we boast that we have the best medical delivery system in the world. Well let the mental and fear mongering tactics and games begin . . . When I read that the US has employer provided healthcare insurance as an accident–it came about as a way to evade wage controls during World War II — it was not some grand principle have we forgotten along the way that healthcare is a human care. Not all states regulate their insurance companies as well as California does. This is a fact. But many companies already sell policies in other states, so what is the big deal about marketing and being more competitive in other states? This is a ruse. As long as the corporations have stockholders to answer to not only will healthcare continue to be a competitive commodity the companies will act in the best interest of the corporation it is called the “bottomline” . . . As for the Republicans, since 1974 even Nixon said that there was a need for healthcare reform . . . maybe the Republicans don’t want this generation of Democrats to get credit for this. Eight years have gone by, maybe the larger plan is to demonize Obama slashing and burning everything that he does, so they can eventually come back in 2012 and claim the passing of the healthcare reform for themselves. 70% of American say they want healthcare reform. Are they waiting on 90%? What some Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats don’t understand about the mandate for Obama, is there are a lot of voters out here sick of the partisan bullshit. Health is an equal opportunity divide and conqueror and it doesn’t care how much money you make, how much insurance you have, what your profession is, what party you belong to, what car you drive, what home you live in, your lifestyle, and your religiosity; without it, you will truly die. Respectfully yours, Minerva L. Williams
IHeartSCVSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Yeesh, so shrill with the tone and the red and all. Where is your concern over how this will all be paid for? Over the constitutionality of requiring Americans to buy insurance? Over how this will all be paid for? Over the fact that the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said yesterday that seniors will see their Medicare benefits cut under healthcare reform plans? Over, yet again, how this will all be paid for? Also, why are you citing a poll from 5 months ago? Hasn’t a lot changed since then?
JeffSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:17 pm
How was I shrill I Heart? I marked the red because I couldn’t figure out how to make it small subscript like you do with your footnotes. But whatever, continue with your mis-characterization. As for how to pay for it? Hundreds of billions will be saved over 10 years by restructuring existing federal health expenditures. Obama has covered that so often. Some of it will undoubtedly be paid for by raising taxes back to Clinton-era levels. Were the 90s bad for your family? He has pledged to not “add a dime” to federal deficit. He’s talking to fiscal cons like you. Whether you don’t believe him or not is your concern, but he is addressing your argument. Finally, I think a poll from April is better than a poll now. Five months of screaming and mis-characterization on both sides prejudices polling. Kind of like tainting a jury pool.
cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I think the idea is that you take from those that have, and give to those that don’t. I think there is a word that defines how this works. Many in this country will not be happy until we are all wearing the same drab uniforms, driving cars of equal value and all living in 1000 square foot homes. That way we can all survive on a high school education, or less, and need not work hard to get ahead. We can all be equally miserable and not complain about it..
Timothy MyersSeptember 24, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Cash: How did you get by the death panel again? Also, why is it that most of the people who scream at the town hall meetings are fat-assed, middle aged white guys. Do they know the death panel won’t treat their Type 2 diabetes since they induced it with their lifestyle? I noticed that I started to get more progressive when I reduced my BMI from above 31 to below 25. Coincidence? I think not!
cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Timmy: I think those fat-assed, middle aged white guys, some that are probably your friends or customers, are tired of seeing the things they have worked long and hard to acquire, taken from them in one form or another. I have not been confronted with a death panel, but I can tell you that if such a panel existed, and if they decided to deny life prolonging treatment, their would be more than one death associated with my ailment. BTW Timmy, you look much older than a guy that is only in his late forties early fifties, BMI of 25 or not.
lvogelSeptember 24, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I don’t want us all wearing the “same drab uniforms”, Cash. I just want us to be able to have the same insurance that the members of Congress, the Senate, many government workers and all their families have. They can keep their drabby uniforms….
cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Well, I assume the insurance they have is considered one of the benefits they receive for working for the government. You can have the same benefit if you want to work for the government. Many of the Senators live in million dollar plus homes, do you want one of those? I am fine with everyone having the same insurance as the government employees, but I am not OK being penalized to satisfy the wants of others. I say that even though I am sure you know that I am not a fan of the government.
lvogelSeptember 24, 2009 at 5:49 pm
I’m confused Cash. What are the ‘wants of others’ you are referring to? Yeah, I pretty much want our youth to be healthy. I want their parents to be around (and healthy) for as long as their able to be. I want the U.S. to truly compete with other countries in this area. Is it wrong to ‘want’ good, affordable and available health care for everyone? Perhaps we should ALL work for the Government? Oh wait, they work for us, right? We pay their salaries (average salary in congress is $174,000.00). So those million dollar homes, we paid for . Lets not forget the amount of vacation they get also. Oh yeah, and the ‘perks’ that lobbyists provide for them. Okay, Okay I’m getting the picture now. WE SHOULD ALL WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT. Come on everyone, lets go fill out those applications….anyone.
IndySeptember 24, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Thanks for the stats Jeff. I would only ask that McKeon explain that if indeed Republicans seen a need to fix the health care system, why have they been waiting 14 years for the effort? Likewise, during all of McKeon’s term in Congress, what some 15 years or so, he’s never voted against a RNC position yet he says he’s looking for bipartian support? Please . . . Anyway, any health care reform is going to cost both the taxpayers and the health insurance industry money thus the resistance by the conservatives in Congress.
IHeartSCVSeptember 24, 2009 at 7:55 pm
I didn’t mean shrill-shrill, I meant the kind of shrill that my subconscious projects on many comments I read of the liberal persuasion, mostly your stuff about preemptive responses to as yet unoffered talking points and arguments about people needing to be insured just because they aren’t. “He has pledged to not ‘add a dime’ to federal deficit. He’s talking to fiscal cons like you. Whether you don’t believe him or not is your concern, but he is addressing your argument.” Indeed, I don’t believe him. There’s a story in Bloomberg today about how inept the Congressional Budget Office is at estimating the costs of legislative actions. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=axAynyxJQILE There are many cases of them overestimating how much money a measure needs (in some cases by a factor of ten), but the only case of them underestimating came when private drug companies competed for marketshare, driving down the costs of drugs for consumers such that a medicare measure became cheaper. I seriously doubt that a public healthcare option is going to be cheaper than expected and that 2/3 of its costs will be covered by spending cuts and greater efficiency. Anyhow, are you planning to ask Buck a question at the meeting?
cashSeptember 24, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Ivogel, The point was not that we should all work for the government. The point was that we need to find our own way and not expect others to pick up the tab. Of course you knew that! My coverage is better than what the government offers and I do not want to see coverage cut, coverage that I worked hard to acquire, to fund some freeloaders insurance. If Obama can cover the millions he has pledged to cover without impacting my coverage, then fine. Problem is Obama has no idea if he can live up to his promise. As I said, I am not a fan of government, local, county, state or federal.
Fred ButlerSeptember 25, 2009 at 7:15 am
without it, you will truly die. Unless you believe Obama’s health care plan will impart magical qualities of health and wealth, like Benny Hinn, even with the best health care in the world (if there is such a thing), you will still die.
lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 8:40 am
You’re right Fred Butler, we will die. It’s part of life. However, why can’t people have a ‘healthy’ life while they are here? Necessary health care and medications are what’s needed to live. I appreciate my health care and am thankful to have insurance; if I didn’t my LIFE would be very different. That being said, there are so many out there that work as hard as those that have (perhaps even harder) and still cannot afford health care. Many either make too much to qualify for medicare (welfare) and not enough to afford insurance. Not every company offers health insurance. If you work part time, forget it. I know I may be repeating myself, but oh well….Growing up my mother often had to work 2 or 3 jobs just to support and give my 2 siblings and I, shelter and food. She made too much to qualify for welfare and too little to provide good health care. Often she would have to wait until we got terribly ill, to take us to the emergency room for treatment. When she decided she had to train in something that would allow her a good paying job with insurance, she had to quit a job or two in order to qualify for welfare. During that 2 year period she went to school. She finally got her higher paying job with benefits, but it came with a price. She became one of those ‘freeloaders’ that is so often thrown around about those who are attempting to just eat, live in a home and raise their children and keep their children HEALTHY! Those that have health care/insurance, don’t feel that anything is wrong right now and they don’t want to loose what they have. To some extent I agree, however there are so many without, and that’s who I worry about. I’m not worried that I’ll loose what I have; I’m worried about all those CITIZENS that don’t have to begin with. OH, and don’t get me started on Hinn. His ‘ministry’…cough, cough….takes in over 200 million dollars a year. I’d like to know how all those people he ‘saved’ are doing today; are they still blind, paralyzed, diabetic, etc…… I can’t believe you compared good affordable HEALTH CARE with this guy!
cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:12 am
Ivogel, it is you that placed your mother in the freeloader category. Her situation does not meet the definition I have in my mind. 1.One who does not contribute or pay appropriately; one who gets a free ride, etc. without paying a fair share. You are throwing the term around, others may have a more defined term. I am glad your mom found a way to get your family through the early challenges of life. She lived an example from which others can learn.
lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:28 am
On the contrary Cash…all anyone had to hear (during those years) was WELFARE, or free school lunch and they immediately catagorized my family, just as they do now. There are so many that rely on Welfare in order to live. Are there people that abuse the system, yes. Are there people that want a ‘free ride’, yes! However there are MANY families that were no different then mine was YEARS AGO, that are trying to LIVE. Those are the ones that get labeled as wanting “others to pick up the tab for them”(your words not mine). Please define what you mean by ‘the tab’. Explain to me how so many of our CITIZENS can achieve what my mother did, without relying on others?
cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:43 am
I thought I made that clear. But to be more precise, deadbeats that make little or no effort to pay their own way, and believe they are entitled to more.
lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 10:58 am
Here’s a link to a website that despells many of the myths about welfare recipients. http://hcom.csumb.edu/welfare/resources/myths_facts.html
cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 11:04 am
Do you have more recent data? Is this another Acorn type group?
lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 11:25 am
okay Cash, the copyright date of this site is 2009….recent enough for you! http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/myths.html BTW, it sure helps these families that need this assistance to associate them with the mentioned group…..sigh…..that’s sadly how the labeling/stereotyping begins….sigh….
cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 11:50 am
And your point is? We can throw statistics back and forth if you like. There is plenty of government data available. I find it interesting that you slap lobbyist that oppose your belief system, but you do not mind the use of data from groups that lobby in favor of your view, sigh! The issue was health care and whether or not deadbeats should be covered at the expensive of others. My response is no. You seem to be saying that everyone should have health care no matter how or by whom the cost is covered. You also seem to be saying that those that have worked hard and are able to have good health insurance may need to give up some of that benefit to pay for coverage for others. I get it. I came from humble beginnings, much like you, except that my parents stayed together. The experience led us to a difference of opinion, belief system and outlook. I vowed not to live that way as an adult, and I have not.
lvogelSeptember 25, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Should deadbeats get dollars from the government they don’t deserve , no. There will always be people, because of greed, that will take advantage of a program that is in place to help those that truly need it. I will not however catergorize those hard working men and women (who need help) as deadbeats, even those that are single parents trying to raise children who can live and learn, as you and I both have.
cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I agree, hard working men and women are not deadbeats.
IndySeptember 25, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Cash, I respect your views but the conservative position that ‘all’ people without say healthcare are ‘deadbeats’ or ‘slackers’ simply defies reality . . . thus to deny the vast majority of Americans without healthcare seems misplaced and inappropriate. There’s no question that people of this nature exist throughout society . . . including politicians, fireman, police, carpenters, and on and on . . . Saying that we can’t provide certain ‘basic’ services like healthcare fearing that a ‘slacker’ would benefit is unrealistic. Auditors exist to enforce ‘rules’ that we as society set up and thus use as ‘test’ to keep people from abusing a given government program but no program, public or private, will be immune from abuse. Thus, using this criteria to defeat any type of health care reform from the uninsured is unreasonable. If our nation could solve it’s common problems with simple slogans in the nature of what you suggest, then we wouldn’t have any problems but we do . . . Like it or not, our ‘free market system’ has lots of problems and isn’t perfect. Assuming is it is also unrealistic. If we/you continue to assert that the few bozos in our society are the reason we can’t help hard working Americans with low paying jobs, then our society will never improve . . . ever . . . . as I’ve seen personally over the last 4 decades. Time got ‘get real’ . . . and real with reality.
cashSeptember 25, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Indy “the conservative position that ‘all’ people without say health care are ‘deadbeats’ or ‘slackers’ simply defies reality”. I do not believe I said this. I never said a “few bozos” either. And auditing or the lack there of has nothing to do with my position. What I said is that I don’t want my family health care reduced so that deadbeats or freeloaders can be covered. Having said this, I do not believe in socialism, nor do I believe that our country is neglecting very many. I have seen how the population of other parts of the world are treated. It is easy to see why people flock to this country. Yes the free market is not perfect, but it works much better if the government stays out of it. The recent housing (everyone come buy your home) debacle can be cited. Beyond that I have no comment. I am sure that you have heard all that can be said about the matter. Not much else is covered by the media.
IndySeptember 26, 2009 at 10:41 am
Cash, let’s see the totality of your remarks by revisiting them: Cash: I think the idea is that you take from those that have, and give to those that don’t. I think there is a word that defines how this works. Cash to Timmy: I think those fat-assed, middle aged white guys, some that are probably your friends or customers, are tired of seeing the things they have worked long and hard to acquire, taken from them in one form or another. Cash: but I am not OK being penalized to satisfy the wants of others Cash: The point was that we need to find our own way and not expect others to pick up the tab. Of course you knew that! Cash: it is you that placed your mother in the freeloader category. Her situation does not meet the definition I have in my mind. 1.One who does not contribute or pay appropriately; one who gets a free ride, etc. without paying a fair share. Cash: I thought I made that clear. But to be more precise, deadbeats that make little or no effort to pay their own way, and believe they are entitled to more. Cash: What I said is that I don’t want my family health care reduced so that deadbeats or freeloaders can be covered. I believe you summarized your points in the last quote . . . but as I noted, there will always be abuses of any program or service, public or private. But to constantly repeat that Americans don’t deserve health care because of a few bozos (Cash: I think there is a word that defines how this works. – call them what you like) is inappropriate and doesn’t really address the issue at hand. Many nations simply can’t afford to give their people anything especially in the third world. Those that ‘flock here’ do so for the money . . . but even that ignores resource constraints. In any event, the ‘free market’ fails in many cases and that’s why government exist, run by ‘us’ to regulate the ‘level playing field’ if you will so we don’t get screwed by high end investors like AIG who created ‘funny money’ paper which took about 40% of my 401K. Same with the housing cycle . . . politicians (not government per se . . . that’s us) decided to ‘look the other way’ on the loan markets since politicians tell us that we can ‘grow ourselves out of the tough decisions like higher taxes (which is obviously false). Look what the SEC under Bush did for years while being ‘advised’ that Madhoff was running a huge billion dollar scheme that Cox, appointed by Bush, did nothing . . . again, probably believing that the ‘taxes’ being generated by Madhoff would reduce the need for more taxes . . . and look at the folly of that position by a politician, not us, the government. So our government has sadly been run by ‘self serving political ideologues’ that don’t serve ‘our interest’ and thus repeating the slogans generated by their marketing departments like some of the slogans you’ve paraphrased solves nothing. Thus your statement that ‘Yes the free market is not perfect, but it works much better if the government stays out of it’ I suggest isn’t consistent with many of your other remarks and per the examples I noted, government lead by self serving ‘safe seat’ politicians created the financial mess where all stuck in . . . not us, the public . . . unless you consider and perhaps appropriately so that ‘we’ elected these ‘bozos’ into government and found that they are only looking out for themselves (witness Buck’s use of the ‘public option’ provided by my tax dollars to him) while at the same time reciting how government is bad . . . as you’ve suggested with the free market quote in this paragraph. In any event, the conservative position you echo comes in waves from Runner. Smyth, and McKeon, none of whom in my view really understand free markets nor the role of government yet they keep reciting their ‘anti-tax’, ‘anti-government’ hard core conservative positions that don’t address reality and we, the public, keep picking up the tab. I’m done with that . . . We’ll have a lot more to discuss on this in the days, months, and years ahead but I want to give the readers another view from your conservative positions that I see don’t work. Nobody wants to give anything to anyone who’s a ‘bozo’ but to assert as you do that this is the basis for not reforming health care seems misplaced. (PS – your viewpoints are presented with ‘your words’ . . . my views as based on mine . . . thus the ‘debate’ is in play . . . versus asserting that ‘you didn’t say this or that’ . . . when the totality of your views is looked at and then commented on by other posters. On the other board, the conservatives there simply start calling you a liar when you don’t use their ‘words’ . . . well, you, they, don’t limit my vocabulary or anyone else’s. And thus, as you did, you can simply clarify your points through debate which is the appropriate response and appreciated)