Harshing my buzz for HSR

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

As a guy who likes trains and big things that go really fast, the whole framing of yesterday’s Signal story on the Council’s discussions on California High Speed Rail annoyed me:

McLean said she had serious concerns on spending tens of billions of dollars on outdated technology. McLean said she didn’t understand why the high-speed rail authority didn’t at least study other transportation technologies, like the Maglev. European and Japanese officials are currently testing “magnetic levitation” technology.

Mayor Laurene Weste agreed. She said Santa Clarita would be shouldering the burden, with a rail line that extends from Palmdale south to the San Fernando Valley by running alongside Highway 14, but that doesn’t stop in Santa Clarita.

Burden? I’ll tell you what’s a burden Mayor Weste. How about all the ozone, noise and particulate pollution that’s deposited in the bowl-shaped SCV by the thousands of cars & trucks that drive up the 5 and 14 everyday, without any mitigation or disincentive at all. If HSR can reduce that by even a single percentage point, it’s a win in my book.

Leave it to SCVTalkers to provide some other good, in -depth discussions points on HSR & SCV. In the comments yesterday, one reader pointed out that HSR’s requirements for a train stop are very land-use intensive (up 3,000 parking spaces required, in other words, maybe we really don’t want a stop) and another noted the “provincialism” of the Councilmembers who would seek to derail this whole project just because there isn’t an SCV stop . Others noted that the nearest station may be in Burbank, not Sylmar, and while that’s a disappointment, I still think many SCVers and North County residents would use it for regional as well as state-wide trips.

These are all serious points and HSR deserves hard in-depth analysis. But we’re missing out on the wow factor here people. Don’t you like big things that go fast too, like me? Here let me show you it:

Wow. That my friends, that whooshing sound, is the sound of progress. It’s so intense. It quickens the pulse, does it not? Tell me that’s not cool. Go on, I dare you.

If it were up to me, we’d have trains all over this valley and region. Fast ones. Slow ones. Light ones. One that goes to the beach and up the coast. One that goes to Vegas too. Asia has them. Europe has them. Why can’t we Americans build them?

Comments (8)

AndySeptember 9, 2010 at 5:01 am

Because magnetic levitation technology is probably wayyyyyy cheaper than whatever we’re doing. Right? Plus, do you realize how vulnerable we would be to Magneto?

Marsha McLeanSeptember 9, 2010 at 10:38 am

“If it were up to me, we’d have trains all over this valley and region. Fast ones. Slow ones. Light ones. One that goes to the beach and up the coast. One that goes to Vegas too. Asia has them. Europe has them. Why can’t we Americans build them?” Jeff, I couldn’t agree more. Time will tell if the CA High Speed Rail ever gets built. There’s lots of questions to be answered. http://www.500kmh.com/podcasts.html – Here’s an interesting link you might enjoy. Take a look at the one showing the comparison between freeway noise, a steel wheel train and the maglev train.

Coastal SageSeptember 9, 2010 at 5:25 pm

“Why can’t we Americans build them?” If you look at how wide the right of way (train land) is in the two videos, it’s probably at least 80′ wide. It’s not terribly costly to build these trains if they are replacing train lines with existing right-of-way, but that’s not the case with this HSR line. However, the cost of buying already-developed land improved with buildings (like a high school, an animal sanctuary, houses, etc.) is going to be enormous in terms of acquiring the right of way for the HSR. The State of California is insolvent. It’s cash outflow is greater than its inflow. The state is not going to guarantee the bonds for HSR as far as I have read. Established as a separate agency, which can issue bonds for 30+ years, essentially buying the land and building the track and bridges with a “mortgage” still requires realistic operating cash flow and operating cost projections. Will the HSR passenger fares produce enough money to pay operating costs and to make payment on the bonds? Las Vegas’ Monorail is now in a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, because those who profited from the building of the Monorail (e.g. planners, engineers contractors, people involved with bond deal etc.) used inflated and fraudulent cash flow and operating cost projections. Then there were bond underwriters, bond underwriters lawyers, bond insurer, bond insurer’s lawyers, bond counsel on tax exempt issues, train line’s financial consultants, train line’s lawyers, bond trustee and bond trustee’s counsel all of whom collected huge fees out of the Monorail bond sale proceeds where the bondholders were defrauded by intentionally defective documents, denying the bondholders a mortgage on the track, trains and fares. In the case of the Las Vegas Monorail, the bondholders are not going to get paid back, period, but the well paid Monorail executives are going to keep their jobs and the Monorail will continue to operate without ever paying back its “mortgage” i.e. bonds. As a result of this fraudulent bond deal, the bond insurer may go bankrupt. In terms of transportation financing the Las Vegas Monorail bond fiasco and bankruptcy is having national ramification in terms of what train lines get financed, and at what interest rate/points. The cost of obtaining bond financing for monorails and high speed train lines is going up substantially, because bond buyers (who effectively set bond interest rates) are VERY wary of fraudulent cash flow projections. Imagine my surprise when I was reading the Monorail bond documents, helping a reporter friend write a story about the debacle, when I discovered that the people who put the Monorail deal together with the phony cash flow projections, i.e. the bond underwriters, bond underwriters lawyers, bond insurer, bond insurer’s lawyers, bond counsel on tax exempt issues, bond trustee and bond trustee’s counsel are the very same people who do CLWA’s bond deals. I wonder who HRA is using to put their bond financing together? Just last week the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission sanctioned the State of New Jersey for putting false and misleading information in its “prospectuses” under which that state’s bonds are sold. I would expect that because of the Las Vegas Monorail fiasco and the SEC’s new attention on false, misleading and fraudulent public agency bond deals will cause the underwriter and bond issuer’s financial consultant organizing the bond financing for the HSR train line will be far more cautious about what they project economically. That, in turn, will raise the “points” and the interest rate on the HSR construction bonds. Occasionally, bond deals don’t close, and projects don’t get funded because they don’t pencil out. It will be interesting to see how much it will cost HSR to obtain financing for this project, if financing is available at all.

ThomasSeptember 9, 2010 at 8:56 pm

I would think the LV monorail failed because the stations are difficult to get to and its expensive to ride. If they would have run it down the strip and you got off at the entrance to the casino, then I would have ridden it. Plus, finding the station in the casino was an adventure itself. AND, I’m sorry, it doesn’t go to the airport?

mikeSeptember 9, 2010 at 11:21 pm

The Las Vegas monorail has more in common with a ride at Magic Mountain that it does the California HSR.

Jeff (But not the one that runs this blogSeptember 9, 2010 at 8:17 pm

I think that the cost of creating these lines in terms of acquiring land etc are what keeps us from having more of them. I wish we had better transportation but find it hard to work myself up into a lather over it because I just feel that they aren’t that likely to come to fruition. As far as Burbank being the closest stop… so what??? That’s as close as we can go for air travel isn’t it? Doesn’t stop me from flying. Too many stops on these lines and all of sudden you might as well be riding Amtrak. You can’t stop them in every town along the way and have high speed transportation.

TimBen BoydstonSeptember 10, 2010 at 7:53 am

Spend the money on light rail in urban areas. HSR doesn’t pencil out with the current alignments from the revenue stream numbers I have seen. If the Feds want to subsidize the whole thing, then that is a different question.

HoosierSeptember 10, 2010 at 7:19 pm

Asia has them. Europe has them. Why can’t we Americans build them? Population density. The U.S. just isn’t crowded enough to make it as functional. Even that huge megalopolis of SoCal actually doesn’t have that much density for an urban area. But even if it did, it wouldn’t offset the vast empty spaces out in the Great Basin, Plains and the Midwest. But I get the love of trains. I grew up less than a quarter mile from railroad tracks, and I still find the sound of a train blowing its horn to be a soothing, comforting, homey sound, and I love riding the train.

AndySeptember 9, 2010 at 5:01 am
Because magnetic levitation technology is probably wayyyyyy cheaper than whatever we’re doing. Right? Plus, do you realize how vulnerable we would be to Magneto?
Marsha McLeanSeptember 9, 2010 at 10:38 am
“If it were up to me, we’d have trains all over this valley and region. Fast ones. Slow ones. Light ones. One that goes to the beach and up the coast. One that goes to Vegas too. Asia has them. Europe has them. Why can’t we Americans build them?” Jeff, I couldn’t agree more. Time will tell if the CA High Speed Rail ever gets built. There’s lots of questions to be answered. http://www.500kmh.com/podcasts.html – Here’s an interesting link you might enjoy. Take a look at the one showing the comparison between freeway noise, a steel wheel train and the maglev train.
Coastal SageSeptember 9, 2010 at 5:25 pm
“Why can’t we Americans build them?” If you look at how wide the right of way (train land) is in the two videos, it’s probably at least 80′ wide. It’s not terribly costly to build these trains if they are replacing train lines with existing right-of-way, but that’s not the case with this HSR line. However, the cost of buying already-developed land improved with buildings (like a high school, an animal sanctuary, houses, etc.) is going to be enormous in terms of acquiring the right of way for the HSR. The State of California is insolvent. It’s cash outflow is greater than its inflow. The state is not going to guarantee the bonds for HSR as far as I have read. Established as a separate agency, which can issue bonds for 30+ years, essentially buying the land and building the track and bridges with a “mortgage” still requires realistic operating cash flow and operating cost projections. Will the HSR passenger fares produce enough money to pay operating costs and to make payment on the bonds? Las Vegas’ Monorail is now in a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, because those who profited from the building of the Monorail (e.g. planners, engineers contractors, people involved with bond deal etc.) used inflated and fraudulent cash flow and operating cost projections. Then there were bond underwriters, bond underwriters lawyers, bond insurer, bond insurer’s lawyers, bond counsel on tax exempt issues, train line’s financial consultants, train line’s lawyers, bond trustee and bond trustee’s counsel all of whom collected huge fees out of the Monorail bond sale proceeds where the bondholders were defrauded by intentionally defective documents, denying the bondholders a mortgage on the track, trains and fares. In the case of the Las Vegas Monorail, the bondholders are not going to get paid back, period, but the well paid Monorail executives are going to keep their jobs and the Monorail will continue to operate without ever paying back its “mortgage” i.e. bonds. As a result of this fraudulent bond deal, the bond insurer may go bankrupt. In terms of transportation financing the Las Vegas Monorail bond fiasco and bankruptcy is having national ramification in terms of what train lines get financed, and at what interest rate/points. The cost of obtaining bond financing for monorails and high speed train lines is going up substantially, because bond buyers (who effectively set bond interest rates) are VERY wary of fraudulent cash flow projections. Imagine my surprise when I was reading the Monorail bond documents, helping a reporter friend write a story about the debacle, when I discovered that the people who put the Monorail deal together with the phony cash flow projections, i.e. the bond underwriters, bond underwriters lawyers, bond insurer, bond insurer’s lawyers, bond counsel on tax exempt issues, bond trustee and bond trustee’s counsel are the very same people who do CLWA’s bond deals. I wonder who HRA is using to put their bond financing together? Just last week the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission sanctioned the State of New Jersey for putting false and misleading information in its “prospectuses” under which that state’s bonds are sold. I would expect that because of the Las Vegas Monorail fiasco and the SEC’s new attention on false, misleading and fraudulent public agency bond deals will cause the underwriter and bond issuer’s financial consultant organizing the bond financing for the HSR train line will be far more cautious about what they project economically. That, in turn, will raise the “points” and the interest rate on the HSR construction bonds. Occasionally, bond deals don’t close, and projects don’t get funded because they don’t pencil out. It will be interesting to see how much it will cost HSR to obtain financing for this project, if financing is available at all.
ThomasSeptember 9, 2010 at 8:56 pm
I would think the LV monorail failed because the stations are difficult to get to and its expensive to ride. If they would have run it down the strip and you got off at the entrance to the casino, then I would have ridden it. Plus, finding the station in the casino was an adventure itself. AND, I’m sorry, it doesn’t go to the airport?
mikeSeptember 9, 2010 at 11:21 pm
The Las Vegas monorail has more in common with a ride at Magic Mountain that it does the California HSR.
Jeff (But not the one that runs this blogSeptember 9, 2010 at 8:17 pm
I think that the cost of creating these lines in terms of acquiring land etc are what keeps us from having more of them. I wish we had better transportation but find it hard to work myself up into a lather over it because I just feel that they aren’t that likely to come to fruition. As far as Burbank being the closest stop… so what??? That’s as close as we can go for air travel isn’t it? Doesn’t stop me from flying. Too many stops on these lines and all of sudden you might as well be riding Amtrak. You can’t stop them in every town along the way and have high speed transportation.
TimBen BoydstonSeptember 10, 2010 at 7:53 am
Spend the money on light rail in urban areas. HSR doesn’t pencil out with the current alignments from the revenue stream numbers I have seen. If the Feds want to subsidize the whole thing, then that is a different question.
HoosierSeptember 10, 2010 at 7:19 pm
Asia has them. Europe has them. Why can’t we Americans build them? Population density. The U.S. just isn’t crowded enough to make it as functional. Even that huge megalopolis of SoCal actually doesn’t have that much density for an urban area. But even if it did, it wouldn’t offset the vast empty spaces out in the Great Basin, Plains and the Midwest. But I get the love of trains. I grew up less than a quarter mile from railroad tracks, and I still find the sound of a train blowing its horn to be a soothing, comforting, homey sound, and I love riding the train.