Antonovich has them surrounded! Or does he?

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

A classic pincer move? And here you thought libraries were boring relics of the 20th century. No! This is the best City/County drama in years!

Readers debate the news that Stevenson Ranch will get a new County Library in the wake of the City’s library takeover of the three existing County branches in Newhall, Canyon Country and Valencia.

NickelDime sees a smart move by Antonovich that will ultimately make annexation to the City seem much less attractive:

Brilliant maneuvering on the part of LA County / Antonovich to surround the City with brand new libraries.

For the first time, the County actually has a valid argument for unincorporated residents to remain as they are: “why would you want to leave the world-class LA County Library system?”

Add yet another thing the City Council did not expect when this was rammed through.

But Saugus Splasher, backing the City as he is wont to do, says the City has embarassed the County into providing more services for its residents in the wake of the takeover:

Unincorporated neighborhoods can thank the city of Santa Clarita for, once again, embarrassing the LA county into providing more services to the SCV. More libraries are good for everyone!

Meanwhile, CoastalSage looks a little deeper and all but says cracks are forming in the City’s assumptions:

In announcing the plans for a Stevenson Ranch Library, Supervisor Antonovich is clearly saying that the Board of Supervisors is not about to vote to give up the library real estate taxes from County taxpayers, to help the City of Santa Clarita finance and operate the City libraries.

That means that the City won’t have as much library related cash in flow, and that the amount they borrow on the “bond” offering will be reduced….assuming the underwriting company (aka lender) organizing the bond offering is smart enough to look past any b.s. peddled by the City in terms of how much real estate tax money it will take in, related to the libraries.

Obviously library economic issues will be worked out in negotiation between the City and the County over the course of the next several months. However, I doubt Supervisor Antonovich would embarrass himself by changing course on this issue relating to libraries for County residents, so at least one of the City staff’s assumptions about a cash flow bonanza from taking over the libraries has now collapsed.

Having a COLA library branch in Stevenson Ranch might actually force me to support the library takeover. If it’s true that the County will build one, then the city’s takeover will have resulted in two distinct library systems within just miles of each other. Whether Antonovich builds it to spite the City or because he’s embarrassed doesn’t matter. As a longtime supporter of library diversity (snicker), more libraries and more choice is a Good Thing. From my high density condo in Newhall, it’s only 1.8 miles to Stevenson Ranch and .9 miles to Old Town Newhall; I’ll have the best of both worlds as will the rest of the SCV, given that it’s much easier and faster to get to Stevenson Ranch than it is to go to Castaic or Agua Dulce.

The law of unintended consequences strikes again and it’s good for we the people (not to mention the COLA employees who might be able to find work with an SR branch rather than work for a boss who thinks they are lazy and shiftless.)

Comments (29)

Bill ReynoldsNovember 17, 2010 at 12:33 pm

Plus, COC breaks ground for a bigger library! Who knew we would be covered up in library news?

Darren HernandezNovember 17, 2010 at 1:49 pm

“Coastal Sage” is incorrect. We (City staff) did not assume the City would receive any library property tax and/or special tax revenue from unincorpated areas. In fact, in our detailed fiscal analysis we include only revenue generated from within the City of Santa Clarita. Therefore, none of our fiscal assumptions have changed as a result of the plan by the county to establish public library service in Stevensons Ranch.

Timothy Myers SRNovember 17, 2010 at 2:15 pm

Darren: Dave Bossert stated on November 8, 2010 in his blog that documents produced under the Save Our Libraries litigation indicate a wish for the County to chip in money for the operation of the City libraries to support usage by County residents. Mistaken? Conflation?

navigatorNovember 18, 2010 at 10:42 am

“indicate a wish” – Bossert is correct, however, a wish is not counted as money in hand but it would be nice to have if county residents would be participating in the usage of City libraries.

LaurelNovember 17, 2010 at 8:00 pm

Darren, so glad to see you got your Internet privileges back. You still don’t get that you’re not going to get ANY special tax money. Your own 1998/9 feasibility study said so.

KellyNovember 17, 2010 at 2:26 pm

I don’t want to be double taxed, that’s what wasn’t thought out! Can’t wait to hear the city spin on this… I will also plan to go to the SR library, I mean I shop west of I-5 and support LA County w/my sales tax $, so this all seems quite fair. It is beyond lame that this city council clowns have their prorities @$$backward$ or am I the only one wondering which innocent bystander will get crushed by a car next fireworks show (if we have one at all)? Or whatever happened to charging the driver in this case?

Daddy Joe GNovember 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm

The Castaic library was open before the city voted to withdraw from the county library system. The Aqua Dulce library had been under construction for over a year, and opened less then a month later. At the opening of the Aqua Dulce library, Antonovich announced the Stevenson Ranch library (how’d y’all miss that?). So the city can’t take credit for any of them. And do you think the county is done? Consider this. A great many of the county library patrons are senior citizens who go to the senior center for lunch, and then walk down to the Newhall library to pick up the stuff they have requested from the county. What is to stop the county from parking a book mobile in the county senior center parking lot once or twice a week? In these difficult economic times, it is understandable that the city should withdraw from the county library system. But to then try to run the libraries on their own in competition with the county is insane.

Petz2November 17, 2010 at 2:56 pm

This plethora of new libraries constitutes an unwise use of scarce resource for an asset whose future viability and need is rapidly being diminished by new technology.

NickelDimeNovember 17, 2010 at 3:27 pm

You’re way out of your depth, Petz. Go talk to a homeschool parent and prepare to be schooled. A library and, say, Borders aren’t fungible.

Daddy Joe GNovember 17, 2010 at 3:41 pm

New technology cannot provide old books.If, like Weste, all you care about is the latest hot title, Kendle or Walmart will serve you fine. If your taste in liturature runs a little deeper, the county libraries are for you. Either way, the $30M anchor at the north end of Main St. is useless.

Lori RivasNovember 17, 2010 at 10:13 pm

Assuming that all people have equal and free access to said technology, I guess your statement might have a toe on which to stand. There are a lot of books and information on the Internet. But the vast majority of published information is not, and probably will never, be available through the Internet. Right now, my son is reading _Venomous and Poisonous Animals: A Handbook for Biologists, Toxicologists and Toxinologists, Physicians and Pharmacists_. Try finding its equal on the ‘Net. My other son is reading _Driving Force: The Natural Magic of Magnets_. Again, no equal on the ‘Net. My emergent reader was coaxed into reading big ‘ole chapter books not by computer games, not by reading online, but by a pretty book with gold edging on the pages and a vellum dust jacket. There is something to be said for holding a book, rather than being distracted by a screen. One of my kids was spurred to reading only by comic books and comic strips. Having done research in the Spanish National Archives in Madrid, there is no equal to holding and reading a 500-year old book. It is touching history, and communicates something much more than the words printed on the page. Barring such privileged access to historical documents, we love the “museum in a book” series, such as this one: _World War II: Saving the Reality, A Collector’s Vault_ at http://www.amazon.com/World-War-II-Reality-Collectors/dp/0794827918/ref=pd_sim_b_10 These books include removable facsimiles of original documents. Nothing like it on the web. God help us all if we give up on and toss out the printed word, in tangible, paper form.

Petz2November 18, 2010 at 5:07 am

Natural Power of Magnets is available on Amazon for 16 cents. http://www.amazon.com/Driving-Force-Natural-Magic-Magnets/dp/0674216458/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290085561&sr=8-2

Library User MichaelNovember 18, 2010 at 9:11 am

Well, not today. However, you could get one for $1.00, plus the shipping and handling fee of $3.95, (which you forgot to mention to exaggerate your argument.) Even used books o Amazon do not delivery themselves. So are you suggesting we should abandon public libraries and required anyone wanting a book to pay at least $5.00 to read it? You applied to join the “The Committee” as I remember. Will one of your criterions be whether a book should be included in the City collection, the cost of the book on Amazon? Will that cost include shipping?

Lori RivasNovember 18, 2010 at 9:20 am

Ah, I know who you are now, Petz2. We have, in fact, attended astronomy day many times over the years. Great presentations during the day, awesome opportunity to see the sky at night. I am not sure what your point is, re: a book available to buy through the Internet. Anything can be purchased. I thought we were talking about free access to information? Huge libraries in close proximity – you are referring to, for example, the Stevenson Ranch library being so close to the Newhall library? Or are you still referring to school and public libraries? (Can a moderator delete my same comment below? I intended this comment to be a continuation of this conversation.)

Timothy Myers SRNovember 17, 2010 at 5:49 pm

Petz: Have you been frozen out of the library committee yet?

Cheryl PhillipsNovember 18, 2010 at 11:55 am

Just saw an ad that said, “Did instant coffee kill coffee?” And “Did the Internet kill magazines?” The answer to both is NO. They are just different choices.

Petz2November 17, 2010 at 4:10 pm

It is not the the responsibility of the taxpayer to duplicate sevice for parents who decide to home school. Give these children access to the school libraries in their area. Forget the fact that we now have inter governmental rivalry to show each other who has the biggest one. The solution is for the county to become more efficient by signing a contract with LSSI and remove the SEIU from the equation entirely.

Daddy Joe GNovember 17, 2010 at 4:45 pm

Don’t know why I never considered that solution. Oh, wait. Yes I do.

Bill ReynoldsNovember 17, 2010 at 5:50 pm

Brilliant, Petz… I’m glad someone around here has common sense.

LaurelNovember 17, 2010 at 8:02 pm

SEIU has nothing do to with this. This is about trading 88 libraries for 3.

Lori RivasNovember 17, 2010 at 9:48 pm

Duplicate what is in school libraries? Are you serious? Even public school students go to the county library for learning and research material. Have you not seen, say, the huge section at Valencia library for science fair projects? For California missions? Perhaps there is a demand for these books? My goodness, as if any individual school could house enough books to satiate its students. That is like saying that a single library can house enough books to serve a community. Oh, wait….

spineflower2November 17, 2010 at 10:27 pm

So you thnk the home-schooled are getting an unfair tax break? You do realize that they pay full school taxes even though they do not use those services? Who is getting ripped off here?

Leon WordenNovember 22, 2010 at 6:47 pm

Given the state funding cutbacks in recent years that have, among other things, curtailed the ability of school districts to stock their libraries with enough books, the Newhall School District is looking forward to being able to send its kids to a public library that is able to provide considerably more service than either its in-house libraries or the little old Newhall Library. It’s one of the big reasons we need a Newhall Library that is filled with books and services, above and beyond what the county had agreed to provide. To the person who said the supervisor mentioned a library in Stevenson Ranch during the Acton/Agua Dulce Library opening, that is correct. The supervisor also said it’s several years away. I can only hope the state will get its financial house in order so the supervisors will have the ability to pad their library budget, rather than decrease it, as they have been forced to do.

RemStarNovember 17, 2010 at 11:11 pm

Are homeschooling parents mostly religious fanatics who don’t want their kids taught about evolution and human reproduction, or are they mostly over possessive “helicopter” parents? Don’t they worry about their kids being stigmatized, or about them growing up to lack in social skills? And don’t they worry their kids will grow up to resent missing out on having a normal childhood?

Lori RivasNovember 17, 2010 at 11:46 pm

Are you genuinely asking these questions? Sounds like a lot of stereotyping. There are plenty of statistics on the homeschooling community, at large, which do not support the stereotype of religious fanatics. And based on my 10 years of homeschooling in SCV, I can tell you that SCV homeschoolers cover the religious, racial and political spectrum. As for lack of social skills, there is a plethora of evidence not only against homeschooled children being socially awkward to stigmatized, but rather more socially developed and self aware. I know that my children do not lack social skills, nor do their friends. We do not just stay in our house all day, every day. As to a “normal” childhood, I guess that is just a point of view. What is your normal? Do you spend your day with only people your own, exact age? Are you removed from the daily workings of community? I prefer to think that it is normal for my kids to see how adults manage their days, to socialize with a broad spectrum of people of different ages and from different communities, to participate in the work and care of family, home and community, to chose their friends based on personality and not the forced interaction of classes. Homeschooling is not for everyone, but neither is public schooling. Don’t allow stereotypes to close your mind to other walks of life, both equally normal and healthy.

Petz2November 18, 2010 at 5:59 am

Petz will state for the record that homeschoolers make up the largest percentage of children who attend our Astronomy Day presentations at Valencia library. They are very polite and ask incredibly insightful questions. Our youngest member is home schooled and recently won a youth award from the International Dark Sky Association. The question is one of resource and building huge libraries in close proximity to each other seems like political pandering and the taxpayer deserves better.

Lori RivasNovember 18, 2010 at 7:39 am

DonRickettsNovember 18, 2010 at 11:23 am

Is Petz saying close Valencia and absorb into the new, bigger Old Town Library?

Petz2November 18, 2010 at 2:45 pm

Petz is not a Newhall fan. Build a large stand alone library with sufficient parking to anchor Whitaker Bermite. Let the courts use the current library and shelve plans to build a new courthouse. Let the Newhall folk like Jeff Wilson ride on Metrolink to the new library in Valencia.

Bill ReynoldsNovember 17, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Plus, COC breaks ground for a bigger library! Who knew we would be covered up in library news?
Darren HernandezNovember 17, 2010 at 1:49 pm
“Coastal Sage” is incorrect. We (City staff) did not assume the City would receive any library property tax and/or special tax revenue from unincorpated areas. In fact, in our detailed fiscal analysis we include only revenue generated from within the City of Santa Clarita. Therefore, none of our fiscal assumptions have changed as a result of the plan by the county to establish public library service in Stevensons Ranch.
Timothy Myers SRNovember 17, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Darren: Dave Bossert stated on November 8, 2010 in his blog that documents produced under the Save Our Libraries litigation indicate a wish for the County to chip in money for the operation of the City libraries to support usage by County residents. Mistaken? Conflation?
navigatorNovember 18, 2010 at 10:42 am
“indicate a wish” – Bossert is correct, however, a wish is not counted as money in hand but it would be nice to have if county residents would be participating in the usage of City libraries.
LaurelNovember 17, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Darren, so glad to see you got your Internet privileges back. You still don’t get that you’re not going to get ANY special tax money. Your own 1998/9 feasibility study said so.
KellyNovember 17, 2010 at 2:26 pm
I don’t want to be double taxed, that’s what wasn’t thought out! Can’t wait to hear the city spin on this… I will also plan to go to the SR library, I mean I shop west of I-5 and support LA County w/my sales tax $, so this all seems quite fair. It is beyond lame that this city council clowns have their prorities @$$backward$ or am I the only one wondering which innocent bystander will get crushed by a car next fireworks show (if we have one at all)? Or whatever happened to charging the driver in this case?
Daddy Joe GNovember 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm
The Castaic library was open before the city voted to withdraw from the county library system. The Aqua Dulce library had been under construction for over a year, and opened less then a month later. At the opening of the Aqua Dulce library, Antonovich announced the Stevenson Ranch library (how’d y’all miss that?). So the city can’t take credit for any of them. And do you think the county is done? Consider this. A great many of the county library patrons are senior citizens who go to the senior center for lunch, and then walk down to the Newhall library to pick up the stuff they have requested from the county. What is to stop the county from parking a book mobile in the county senior center parking lot once or twice a week? In these difficult economic times, it is understandable that the city should withdraw from the county library system. But to then try to run the libraries on their own in competition with the county is insane.
Petz2November 17, 2010 at 2:56 pm
This plethora of new libraries constitutes an unwise use of scarce resource for an asset whose future viability and need is rapidly being diminished by new technology.
NickelDimeNovember 17, 2010 at 3:27 pm
You’re way out of your depth, Petz. Go talk to a homeschool parent and prepare to be schooled. A library and, say, Borders aren’t fungible.
Daddy Joe GNovember 17, 2010 at 3:41 pm
New technology cannot provide old books.If, like Weste, all you care about is the latest hot title, Kendle or Walmart will serve you fine. If your taste in liturature runs a little deeper, the county libraries are for you. Either way, the $30M anchor at the north end of Main St. is useless.
Lori RivasNovember 17, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Assuming that all people have equal and free access to said technology, I guess your statement might have a toe on which to stand. There are a lot of books and information on the Internet. But the vast majority of published information is not, and probably will never, be available through the Internet. Right now, my son is reading _Venomous and Poisonous Animals: A Handbook for Biologists, Toxicologists and Toxinologists, Physicians and Pharmacists_. Try finding its equal on the ‘Net. My other son is reading _Driving Force: The Natural Magic of Magnets_. Again, no equal on the ‘Net. My emergent reader was coaxed into reading big ‘ole chapter books not by computer games, not by reading online, but by a pretty book with gold edging on the pages and a vellum dust jacket. There is something to be said for holding a book, rather than being distracted by a screen. One of my kids was spurred to reading only by comic books and comic strips. Having done research in the Spanish National Archives in Madrid, there is no equal to holding and reading a 500-year old book. It is touching history, and communicates something much more than the words printed on the page. Barring such privileged access to historical documents, we love the “museum in a book” series, such as this one: _World War II: Saving the Reality, A Collector’s Vault_ at http://www.amazon.com/World-War-II-Reality-Collectors/dp/0794827918/ref=pd_sim_b_10 These books include removable facsimiles of original documents. Nothing like it on the web. God help us all if we give up on and toss out the printed word, in tangible, paper form.
Petz2November 18, 2010 at 5:07 am
Natural Power of Magnets is available on Amazon for 16 cents. http://www.amazon.com/Driving-Force-Natural-Magic-Magnets/dp/0674216458/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290085561&sr=8-2
Library User MichaelNovember 18, 2010 at 9:11 am
Well, not today. However, you could get one for $1.00, plus the shipping and handling fee of $3.95, (which you forgot to mention to exaggerate your argument.) Even used books o Amazon do not delivery themselves. So are you suggesting we should abandon public libraries and required anyone wanting a book to pay at least $5.00 to read it? You applied to join the “The Committee” as I remember. Will one of your criterions be whether a book should be included in the City collection, the cost of the book on Amazon? Will that cost include shipping?
Lori RivasNovember 18, 2010 at 9:20 am
Ah, I know who you are now, Petz2. We have, in fact, attended astronomy day many times over the years. Great presentations during the day, awesome opportunity to see the sky at night. I am not sure what your point is, re: a book available to buy through the Internet. Anything can be purchased. I thought we were talking about free access to information? Huge libraries in close proximity – you are referring to, for example, the Stevenson Ranch library being so close to the Newhall library? Or are you still referring to school and public libraries? (Can a moderator delete my same comment below? I intended this comment to be a continuation of this conversation.)
Timothy Myers SRNovember 17, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Petz: Have you been frozen out of the library committee yet?
Cheryl PhillipsNovember 18, 2010 at 11:55 am
Just saw an ad that said, “Did instant coffee kill coffee?” And “Did the Internet kill magazines?” The answer to both is NO. They are just different choices.
Petz2November 17, 2010 at 4:10 pm
It is not the the responsibility of the taxpayer to duplicate sevice for parents who decide to home school. Give these children access to the school libraries in their area. Forget the fact that we now have inter governmental rivalry to show each other who has the biggest one. The solution is for the county to become more efficient by signing a contract with LSSI and remove the SEIU from the equation entirely.
Daddy Joe GNovember 17, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Don’t know why I never considered that solution. Oh, wait. Yes I do.
Bill ReynoldsNovember 17, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Brilliant, Petz… I’m glad someone around here has common sense.
LaurelNovember 17, 2010 at 8:02 pm
SEIU has nothing do to with this. This is about trading 88 libraries for 3.
Lori RivasNovember 17, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Duplicate what is in school libraries? Are you serious? Even public school students go to the county library for learning and research material. Have you not seen, say, the huge section at Valencia library for science fair projects? For California missions? Perhaps there is a demand for these books? My goodness, as if any individual school could house enough books to satiate its students. That is like saying that a single library can house enough books to serve a community. Oh, wait….
spineflower2November 17, 2010 at 10:27 pm
So you thnk the home-schooled are getting an unfair tax break? You do realize that they pay full school taxes even though they do not use those services? Who is getting ripped off here?
Leon WordenNovember 22, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Given the state funding cutbacks in recent years that have, among other things, curtailed the ability of school districts to stock their libraries with enough books, the Newhall School District is looking forward to being able to send its kids to a public library that is able to provide considerably more service than either its in-house libraries or the little old Newhall Library. It’s one of the big reasons we need a Newhall Library that is filled with books and services, above and beyond what the county had agreed to provide. To the person who said the supervisor mentioned a library in Stevenson Ranch during the Acton/Agua Dulce Library opening, that is correct. The supervisor also said it’s several years away. I can only hope the state will get its financial house in order so the supervisors will have the ability to pad their library budget, rather than decrease it, as they have been forced to do.
RemStarNovember 17, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Are homeschooling parents mostly religious fanatics who don’t want their kids taught about evolution and human reproduction, or are they mostly over possessive “helicopter” parents? Don’t they worry about their kids being stigmatized, or about them growing up to lack in social skills? And don’t they worry their kids will grow up to resent missing out on having a normal childhood?
Lori RivasNovember 17, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Are you genuinely asking these questions? Sounds like a lot of stereotyping. There are plenty of statistics on the homeschooling community, at large, which do not support the stereotype of religious fanatics. And based on my 10 years of homeschooling in SCV, I can tell you that SCV homeschoolers cover the religious, racial and political spectrum. As for lack of social skills, there is a plethora of evidence not only against homeschooled children being socially awkward to stigmatized, but rather more socially developed and self aware. I know that my children do not lack social skills, nor do their friends. We do not just stay in our house all day, every day. As to a “normal” childhood, I guess that is just a point of view. What is your normal? Do you spend your day with only people your own, exact age? Are you removed from the daily workings of community? I prefer to think that it is normal for my kids to see how adults manage their days, to socialize with a broad spectrum of people of different ages and from different communities, to participate in the work and care of family, home and community, to chose their friends based on personality and not the forced interaction of classes. Homeschooling is not for everyone, but neither is public schooling. Don’t allow stereotypes to close your mind to other walks of life, both equally normal and healthy.
Petz2November 18, 2010 at 5:59 am
Petz will state for the record that homeschoolers make up the largest percentage of children who attend our Astronomy Day presentations at Valencia library. They are very polite and ask incredibly insightful questions. Our youngest member is home schooled and recently won a youth award from the International Dark Sky Association. The question is one of resource and building huge libraries in close proximity to each other seems like political pandering and the taxpayer deserves better.
Lori RivasNovember 18, 2010 at 7:39 am
Ah, I know who you are now, Petz2. We have, in fact, attended astronomy day many times over the years. Great presentations during the day, awesome opportunity to see the sky at night. I am not sure what your point is, re: a book available to buy through the Internet. Anything can be purchased. I thought we were talking about free access to information? Huge libraries in close proximity – you are referring to, for example, the Stevenson Ranch library being so close to the Newhall library? Or are you still referring to school and public libraries?
DonRickettsNovember 18, 2010 at 11:23 am
Is Petz saying close Valencia and absorb into the new, bigger Old Town Library?
Petz2November 18, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Petz is not a Newhall fan. Build a large stand alone library with sufficient parking to anchor Whitaker Bermite. Let the courts use the current library and shelve plans to build a new courthouse. Let the Newhall folk like Jeff Wilson ride on Metrolink to the new library in Valencia.