SCV Talk · Archive
Nine years of the Valley’s town square · 2006–2015
SCV Talk
March 3, 2011· scvtalk.com · WordPress (SCVTalk 3.0) · Wayback capture

City highlights problems with High Speed Rail plan

KHTS has a good report on Mayor Marsha McLean’s comments before the California High Speed Rail Authority’s board of directors this morning in Downtown LA:

The City Council is concerned that our community is significantly impacted by the proposed high-speed rail line and yet, none of the negative impacts are alleviated in the form of providing benefits to the residents of Santa Clarita.

“The rail line comes at grade through neighborhoods located in the eastern areas of Santa Clarita and the visual blight of the rail line and fencing for a dedicated right-of-way will only add to the noise and vibration of the trains, which will be felt by our residents.

McLean went on to say that the proposed alignment (visible in the map above) would cross spaces purchased with our Open Space money and that at-grade rail alignments would cut off wildlife corridors.

All very valid concerns.

Of course she lead off with the concerns about the at-grade rail line that would run “through neighborhoods located in the eastern areas of Santa Clarita.” That, of course, is referring to Sand Canyon, the wealthy/ranchy/horsey area of the City preferred by the more discerning elites of this town (as opposed to the Nouveau Riche who think living in West Ridge is something special).

As you can see in the map, the proposed alignment of the train would largely be underground for much of the southern and eastern SCV. But once the train tracks hit the Sand Canyon area, they’ll be at grade (meaning on, not under or over, the ground).

Metrolink and Union Pacific already run through this area at-grade, but those trains travel at less than 80 mph. California’s HSR, in contrast, is designed to travel at 200+ mph, and this would require building extensive fencing & barriers along the rail corridor.

As a big supporter of HSR and someone who hates flying, I’m really bummed we won’t have a stop in Santa Clarita and I’m sympathetic to the argument that building it through here is a net negative. But the fact of the matter is there will be a train stop just over the hill in Sylmar, many commuters in the Antelope Valley will prefer to ride this fast train to downtown LA or Burbank rather than drive on our Highway 14 and, like it or not, Santa Clarita is in a strategic place for the entire state.

City highlights problems with High Speed Rail plan

Comments (45)

  1. CastaicClayMarch 3, 2011 at 1:13 pm
    Connecting Northern California and Southern California should not go thru the AV. Just follow the 5.
  2. spineflower2March 3, 2011 at 2:27 pm
    You think a train can climb the Grapevine at 200 mph?
  3. Coastal SageMarch 3, 2011 at 7:47 pm
    If it can traverse the Tehachapi Pass along the route of Highway 58, between the area NE or Arvin and into Tehachapi, then it can certainly climb the Grapevine Hill too. I am very opposed to the “through the Antelope Valley route” because it will be a huge waste of money, both in terms of massive land acquisition costs and engineered construction costs of bridges across huge, deep canyons and tunnels through very steep, granite mountains. I know the geology of both routes like the back of my hand and the 5 alignment is far more intelligent and less costly.
  4. stanportMarch 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm
    This is exactly the reason they picked the AV route. Their analysis determined it was cheaper than going along the 5.
  5. CCMarch 3, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    OMG! The Sand Canyon residents will be impacted! The HUMANITY!!!!
  6. Coastal SageMarch 3, 2011 at 7:50 pm
    It will also negatively affect the ordinary people who live in the Pardee homes east of Costco and, depending on how one reads the maps, the ordinary people who live in the Jack Shine built homes, the KB Homes and the people in “Slippery Hills” near the Princessa Metrolink station.
  7. CCMarch 3, 2011 at 11:18 pm
    Yes, but only the Sand Canyon residents actually matter.
  8. GregMarch 3, 2011 at 1:31 pm
    Last I heard HSR is scrapping the Sylmar station and the closest station will now be at Burbank Airport. Makes sense as there are more connections there and you can get off at an airport. The HSR is really more of a long-distance option and not short in my opinion. I dont think it will be viable to ride it to Downtown LA if you have to drive to Burbank to catch it.
  9. Need for Involved CitizenryMarch 3, 2011 at 1:56 pm
    Wouldn’t be viable from Sylmar either as it will take you 30-40 minutes plus to make it there with OVOV.
  10. OccassionalPosterMarch 3, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Following the 5 won’t work. It would have to scale to steep a grade over the grapevine. Trains don’t run well with passengers over a grade of more than 4 percent.
  11. CastaicClayMarch 3, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Is the Tehachapi route really that much better?
  12. CastaicClayMarch 3, 2011 at 5:56 pm
    19th century technology holding us back in the 21st century. We are supposed to in flying cars by now.
  13. JayceMarch 4, 2011 at 10:35 am
    Seriously! Where’s all our standard video land line phones also (yes I can video chat on the computer but that’s not the same thing) :-p
  14. Alan FerdmanMarch 3, 2011 at 2:32 pm
    The “at grade route” through the SCV will impact far more than Sand Canyon. Residents in Fair Oaks and everyone east of the route will be impacted. It is unclear how many under crossings will be built and how many roads will be dead ended. I am opposed to the High Speed Rail project due to its exorbitant cost, impact on residents and lack of route flexibility. Think about it, when travel volume changes from city to city airlines simply change the number of flights to accommodate their customers. It is impossible to re-rail in the same way.
  15. IHeartSCVMarch 3, 2011 at 5:54 pm
    The only thing wrong with the high-speed rail plan is everything. If they can fix that, I’ll be an enthusiastic supporter.
  16. HermanMarch 3, 2011 at 6:26 pm
    Well said.
  17. David KMarch 3, 2011 at 7:11 pm
    While I wish that CAHSR would stop in the SCV, in the long term this project is crucial for California’s transportation infrastructure. Have any of the posters on SCVTalk who are opposed to HSR looked at gas prices recently? Still want to keep defending our oil-based transportation system as gas prices approach (and will soon pass) $4 a gallon? Of course it costs money to build, but its an investment in our future. The interstate highway system and our airports cost billions to build. Government made these investments for prior generations and as the price of oil rises, has to invest in the next generation of transportation infrastructure. This project is too important to California for Marsha McLean and a bunch of Sand Canyon NIMBYs to attempt to derail it.
  18. Petz-aka Saugus SteveMarch 3, 2011 at 7:19 pm
    Drill Here, Drill Now Lower Prices
  19. David KMarch 4, 2011 at 1:06 am
    There are over 2 billion people in China and India who will start driving in the next few years. China already has surpassed the United States as the top auto market. The addition of these drivers will cancel out the supply increase from drilling in ANWR and the Outer Continental Shelf. The era of cheap oil is coming to an end and oil shale, ANWR and OCS wont be able to change that. Even if oil prices remained low, or battery technology reaches the point where electric cars can have the range of their gas powered counterparts, what about the population growth in California that’s going to overwhelm our freeways and airports? Widening I-5 throughout the entire San Joaquin Valley and expanding our airports costs much more than a HSR line, which only gets more expensive if we wait any longer to construct it. HSR is the right choice for California and that’s why in addition to voting to invest almost $10 billion towards the project in 2008, 70% Californians (according to still support CAHSR. The CAHSR Authority has shown itself willing to work with Northern California cities like Gilroy on mitigating any concerns of people who will be located near the tracks, and it should do the same with the City and residents in Sand Canyon and Fair Oaks Ranch. There are too many people in this state who support this project for the NIMBY’s in Sand Canyon to refuse to cooperate with the CAHSRA and attempt to delay or block HSR.
  20. Fred ButlerMarch 4, 2011 at 9:51 am
    Meanwhile, China, free from ridiculous environmental regulations, gets to drill in their own country. The irony is staggering.
  21. JeffMarch 4, 2011 at 10:02 am
    Your ignorance is staggering. China is the second leading importer of oil in the world, behind only the US. They’re worried sick over their energy consumption and have undertaken a drastic plan to increase energy-effeciency economy-wide by 20%. They are also the world’s biggest producer of wind turbines. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/business/energy-environment/05energy.html?_r=1&hp
  22. Fred ButlerMarch 4, 2011 at 2:16 pm
    Jeff. What does China’s imports have to do with their ability to drill in their own country? Just Google the subject.
  23. CastaicClayMarch 4, 2011 at 8:28 am
    Ha, Petz also says “buy now!” as the market continues to wane.
  24. Petz-aka Saugus SteveMarch 4, 2011 at 10:54 am
    Castaic Clay…don’t believe everything that you hear or read. Home affordability is at a near record high and is a function of price and interest rates. Many people believe that rates will trend up and it looks like financing may become more expensive. So here are some numbers for Castaic SFRs that may be of interest. Comparing Feb 2010 to Feb 2011… Median sales price dropped modestly from $358200 to $349,500. The number of closed sales climbed from 17 to 20. Properties that went Under Contract increased from 30 to 33. New properties listed dropped from 40 to 30 and the MSI (Monthly Supply of Inventory) stood at only 3 months. Petz stands by his assertion that this is an opportune time for a buyer or seller to make their move.
  25. Petz-aka Saugus SteveMarch 4, 2011 at 11:54 am
    Here is a link to a WSJ article that gives you fives signs that it may be time to buy! http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703905404576164720668195108.html?mod=WSJ_RealEstate_LeftTopNews
  26. Mr PerezMarch 4, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    If I had the disposable income and the knowledge I wasn’t going to move for the next 10 years, right now would be the PERFECT time to buy. But none of those factors exist so I can only hope and pray in 4 years the market is as receptive.
  27. NickelDimeMarch 5, 2011 at 7:01 am
    Petz, lemme guess… now’s a great time to buy AND sell, right?
  28. Coastal SageMarch 3, 2011 at 7:59 pm
    I am also very concerned that the High Speed Rail Line will negatively affect the Shambala Preserve on Soledad Canyon Road in Acton (shambala.org). The existing train line runs along the property’s boundary, and from the train agency’s maps I cannot figure out if the high speed rail line will run in a tunnel through the mountainsides on either side of Shambala, or right in the lowland where it is located. It’s not going to be an easy task for Shambala if they have to relocate all of their lions, tigers, leopards and other big cats. If it’s “just” blasting of tunnels, the big cats will be very disturbed, to say the least, and their health will be affected. If the rail line fails to offer Shambala an appropriate condemnation settlement offer before seizing the land, where will Shambala get the cash to build a new preserve and move the animals? If the rail line fails to offer Shambala an appropriate condemnation settlement offer Shambala will be forced to litigate to prove its monetary damages, and the jury will not have an opportunity to award damages for all of the intangible costs of moving the preserve.
  29. Mr Perez aka DilligafMarch 3, 2011 at 8:38 pm
    I agree with you Coastal that this should be a major concern. However, we reside in an area where there are alot of insensitive, selfish aholes who only care how green their lawn is, what type of care they drive, and what their social status is.
  30. Mr Perez aka DilligafMarch 3, 2011 at 8:47 pm
    *car
  31. EricMarch 4, 2011 at 5:58 am
    This is what people voted for: To provide Californians a safe, convenient, affordable, and reliable alternative to driving and high gas prices; to provide good-paying jobs and improve California’s economy while reducing air pollution, global warming greenhouse gases, and our dependence on foreign oil, shall $9.95 billion in bonds be issued to establish a clean, efficient high-speed train service linking Southern California, the Sacramento/San Joaquin Valley, and the San Francisco Bay Area, with at least 90 percent of bond funds spent for specific projects, with federal and private matching funds required, all bond funds subject to an independent audit? State costs of $19.4 billion, assuming 30 years to pay both principal and interest costs of the bonds. Payments would average about $647 million per year. When constructed, unknown operation and maintenance costs (unknown, comforting), probably over $1 billion annually (a safe bet); at least partially, and potentially fully (yeah, sure), offset by passenger fares. Who could say no to that? What if it also said..Oh, by the way, the project will cost at least twice as much as our original projections, ridership will never sustain operating costs, so taxpayers will subsidize this forever, and fares will be at least 50% higher than originally indicated. If I want to get somewhere fast…I fly. I don’t think this boondoggle will ever impact the lower mileage daily commute. And honestly, if I had to choose between spending $20 Billion on this or shoring up our UC, Cal State, & Community college systems, I choose the latter.
  32. HermanMarch 4, 2011 at 6:46 am
    “What if it also said..Oh, by the way, the project will cost at least twice as much as our original projections, ridership will never sustain operating costs, so taxpayers will subsidize this forever, and fares will be at least 50% higher than originally indicated.” That’s what we know SO FAR. This mess is far from over.
  33. JeffMarch 4, 2011 at 7:42 am
    What airport are you flying out of? Because flying is no longer a fast means of transportation when you factor all the procedures you have to go through before take-off and after landing.
  34. HermanMarch 4, 2011 at 7:57 am
    Will there not be similar security measures taken on a 200MPH bullet travelling through populated areas? Face it, this thing has boondoggle written all over it.
  35. JeffMarch 4, 2011 at 7:59 am
    Even if there are similar security procedures, it’s much faster to load/unload a train than an airplane, which has only one entry/exit point.
  36. HermanMarch 4, 2011 at 8:05 am
    And now the goalposts get moved. So what does the additional entry/exit points save? Maybe 10 minutes? What’s next, the parking the will have more spaces close to the door? “Even if”? do you have any doubt that there will be tight security on this thing?
  37. JeffMarch 4, 2011 at 8:08 am
    An HSR train will hold several hundred people, equivalent to a jumbo jet. It will save much more than 10 minutes to load/unload passengers. Have you ever even ridden a train? And yes I doubt security procedures will be as tight as they are on airlines. Metrolink and Amtrak have no virtually no security checks save for onboard police officers.
  38. HermanMarch 4, 2011 at 8:28 am
    So if you were going to take the HSR on say a 450 mile trip (San Diego/San Fransisco), travel time would be 2 hr. 15m, if there were zero stops. The equivelent trip on a jet would be 1hr 7m. You think it will take an additional hour to get through airport security? And you are basing that on what exactly? Oh, and yes, I’ve been on a train. I love trains. Probably for the same reason I love muscle cars, drive ins and TCM; they remind me of a bygone era.
  39. JeffMarch 4, 2011 at 8:50 am
    “And you are basing that on what exactly?” Uhh, the fact that I’m a frequent flyer? Does anyone reading this go to the airport with less than one hour to spare before their flight?
  40. HermanMarch 4, 2011 at 8:54 am
    Of course not, and I end up with enough time before my flight to go have lunch, read, take a nap. You’d be a fool to go to the train station without time to spare as well. Any way you slice it this HSR is a bad idea poorly executed. Magical thinking about how much time we’ll save getting on and off a train vs a plane dosen’t change that.
  41. navigatorMarch 4, 2011 at 11:53 am
    Hey Jeff, since you’re a FF what time do I need to hit Burbank airport for an 11:20 AM flight to Sacto?
  42. JeffMarch 4, 2011 at 12:34 pm
    I would get there no later than 10:30. Burbank’s easy compared to LAX I thought you all were taking the party bus to Sacto?
  43. Eric HeilbrunMarch 4, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    From the kpbs.org website.. “For decades, other states and countries have looked to California’s three-tiered system of higher education as a model for access, affordability and academic excellence. Its 1960 Master Plan for Higher Education opened college to all residents and helped make the state an engine of economic growth and technological innovation.” “The state’s financial crisis is battering its world-renowned system of higher education, reducing college opportunities for residents and threatening California’s economic recovery.” With limited financial resources, there should be no question about the priority when allocating funds. We can have a slick high speed rail that will continue to suck revenue from the state FOREVER, or we make a commitment to restore our system of higher education and keep it accessible to all with ample resources so kids can get the classes they need. Good-paying jobs? Yeah, for the HSR commissioners and related bureaucrats. If it’s a choice between education or standing in line at security…I’ll stand in line (a small sacrifice). Of course, the HSR is a done deal and the money is down the tubes.
  44. cashMarch 5, 2011 at 9:47 am
    A high speed rail system that has to stop at every city, town or village to satisfy the likes of Marsha McLean kind of defeats the purpose of “high speed”! It the system soon becomes something less. Marsha lacks the critical thinking ability to be commenting on such matters, something that is probably recognized by the decision makers.
  45. EricMarch 5, 2011 at 11:28 am
    Cracks are forming.

Preserved as part of the SCV Talk Archive. Text is presented as originally published; presentation has been standardised for readability. The original capture is available at the Internet Archive.

Support