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July 19, 2011· scvtalk.com · WordPress (SCVTalk 3.0) · Wayback capture

The Future of Lyons Avenue

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

The City posted an interesting video in which two Lyons Avenue business owners reflected on what they liked and disliked about the SCV’s only straight-as-an-arrow street:

An embedded embedded media appeared here in the original post. View the original — embeds are preserved as links in this archive.

I was struck by two things the business owners said that related specifically to transportation and the street itself.

The first business owner said he thought Lyons could become the SCV’s own Colorado Blvd. Now if you know Colorado Blvd in Pasadena, you know a few things. 1) It’s not a very nice place to drive, and 2) it’s a very nice place to walk. So it seems to me our business owner favors Lyons Avenue still being accessible by car, but becoming much more pedestrian friendly. Which means a tad more density. And wider sidewalks. More public spaces, more benches, more ped-friendly amenities, etc.

The second business owners, the folks who own the Valencia Florist shop (and who outfitted me with many a corsage during Sophomore, Jr. and Sr. Prom- thanks!) said much the same thing. She commented that the cars drive too fast on Lyons Avenue. She said it can be difficult for people to get in and out of the shopping center.

Both of these business owners seem to favor slowing traffic down on Lyons Avenue, either to make it more ped-friendly or to ease traffic egress/ingress. It’ll be interesting to see if other owners and residents agree, because until now, the City has pursued a high traffic flow is best policy on Lyons Avenue, as traffic engineers are prone to do. In 2009, they striped a third east bound lane, forcing bicyclists to use the sidewalk (where it exists) even though traffic on Lyons hardly comes close to other three lane roads in town, like Soledad or Bouquet. The 40 mph speed limit has remained, but guess what happens when you add lanes and try to make every street flow as well as the Newhall Ranch Road? People feel at liberty to speed.

If you live in Newhall and want to have your voice heard, be sure to attend Thursday night’s meeting in Old Orchard. Read all about it here.

Comments (50)

  1. NFICJuly 19, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    Sounds great on the surface to have Lyons be more pedestrian friendly with less traffic. But the reality of the city especially under OVOV will be more streets for more cars. Unfortunately, unlike Pasadena which has a grid type street system, no such road pattern exists in our fair city. As a result, there are not any good, close east – west alternatives to Lyons unless you wanted to make the trek up to Wiley – Via Princessa which is not a very viable option. Add to that the extension of Dockweiler to dump traffic directly onto Lyons, along with the Village proposed for the mule farm and you get an idea of what Lyons will likely become (and no, it won’t be a walkable, bike friendly place).
  2. SplashGuardJuly 19, 2011 at 3:38 pm
    Looks like the City wants to get out in front with the spin machine. So who’s idea was this? Accounting starts now: How much was spent to construct the website and make this video?
  3. Coastal SageJuly 19, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    The “future” of Lyons Avenue, heading east past Railroad Avenue, and crossing the Metrolink tracks at grade, is entirely dependent on the City of Santa Clarita obtaining the consent of two other public agencies: The California Public Utilities Commission and Metrolink. Less than a year ago the City staff began an effort to do an EIR on the at-grade train crossing alone, without evaluating the entirety of whatever “project” the new road across the tracks would be associated with. That effort died for 3 if not more reasons: (1) The Placerita Canyon Property Owners Association hired a hot shot lawyer who barraged the City staff with Public Records Act requests for documents, as well as threats of litigation for “piece mealing” a project by doing an EIR on the small area of the at grade crossing alone. (2) The railroad supervisory staff of the California Public Utilities Commission sent the City staff a letter telling them the CPUC would not approve an at-grade crossing of the train tracks at Lyons Avenue. (3) The public safety director of Metrolink sent the City staff a letter reminding them that Metrolink ‘owns the dirt’ under the train tracks, and that the City could not build any track crossing, let alone an at grade crossing, without Metrolink’s consent. Lurking behind the letters of disapproval described in (2) and (3), and perhaps unknown to the City staff, is the vehement criticism the CPUC and the City of Burbank received in the National Transportation Safety Board’s investigation report from the 2003 Burbank Metrolink crash. See: http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2003/har0304.pdf Especially after the Glendale Metrolink crashes involving 2 Metrolink trains (where the crazy man drove his car from an at grade crossing down the tracks to make the train derail) both the staff members of CPUC and Metrolink have gotten the message from the NTSB that at-grade train track crossings in high traffic areas are not safe. This month’s crash of a tractor trailer truck into an Amtrak train in the middle of nowhere near Reno simply reiterated NTSB’s point. It’s pretty clear that there is not enough land for the City to build a bridge over the train tracks at a Lyons Avenue crossing, or a viaduct under the train tracks at a Lyons Avenue crossing, so the question of whether the City of Santa Clarita’s request for Metrolink and CPUC approval of an at-grade crossing becomes a political one. Santa Clarita’s County Supervisor is one of the most powerful members of Metrolink’s Board of Directors, so I have no doubt that if “Mike” wants the at-grade crossing for Lyons Avenue approved, the Metrolink Board will approve it and disregard the letter-in-the-file from Metrolink’s safety staff director. As to the CPUC, they have recently been rocked by the death of one of their own staff members in the San Bruno gas line explosion, which occurred because of CPUC’s own regulatory negligence. So the CPUC railroad staff may stick by their refusal to approve an at-grade crossing at Lyons Avenue. The City can then appeal the staff decision to the full CPUC Commission, and the outcome of their vote will be entirely dependent on how quickly Gov. Jerry Brown has the opportunity to replace current CPUC Commissioners with those who are more public safety oriented. So, if you live in Newhall or Placerita Canyon, and don’t want a Lyons Avenue at-grade crossing (or a reconfigured 13th Street at grade crossing) begin continuously bombarding the CPUC’s railroad staff with letters objecting to the City’s application for approval of such an at-grade crossing. And the City’s liability for injuries and deaths if a Metrolink train crashes at an at-grade train track crossing? If they get CPUC’s approval of the design of the at-grade crossing, they have no liability under the doctrine of soverign immunity. And as to the liability of any private civil engineering firm hired to design the at-grade train track crossing, if it can be proven to be defectively designed as in the Burbank crash case? Typically, despite the massive dollar volume of public works projects these civil engineering firms generally carry only $1 Million in liability insurance. That’s not even enough to reimburse Metrolink for 1 wrecked passenger train car if there is a train-truck or train-car collision at an at-grade crossing. When there is a Metrolink crash, Metrolink is usually the first to file a lawsuit as a plaintiff against the party who caused the crash. So if a negligently designed at grade crossing of the train tracks at Lyons Avenue comes into existence, and a major train collision occurs, it will be up to the mood of the plaintiffs’ lawyers in the case as to whether to bankrupt the civil engineering company involved. When a Metrolink train car breaks loose of the train in a crash, it will generally spin like a boomerang before falling over on its side. The one nuance in the mechanics of Metrolink train crashes which we haven’t seen yet, but which is sure to come, is the fact that a boomeranging, derailing Metrolink train car will eventually squash innocent bystanders on foot, in their cars, or in buildings near the train tracks. That’s just another reason why at-grade crossings at major streets, especially where major roads parallel them, like the one proposed at Lyons Avenue, are particularly unsafe. Not that the staff members of the City of Santa Clarita would particularly care or feel any guilt if that happened.
  4. Mr PerezJuly 19, 2011 at 9:19 pm
    Did anyone else either stop reading or fall asleep after the 2nd paragraph? Maybe it’s something we cucarachas need to have examined by the doctor.
  5. BrookJuly 20, 2011 at 3:08 pm
    “The one nuance in the mechanics of Metrolink train crashes which we haven’t seen yet, BUT WHICH IS SURE TO COME, is the fact that a boomeranging, derailing Metrolink train car will eventually squash innocent bystanders on foot, in their cars, or in buildings near the train tracks. ” Could you imagine the world we would live in if every “what if” scenario really happened. CS you should stay in your house to be safe from boomeranging trains all over town, oh wait a plane might crash on it. We are all screwed.
  6. CCJuly 21, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Brook, CS has unique experience with train crashes, so lighten up, ok?
  7. Coastal SageJuly 21, 2011 at 6:27 pm
    Hey Brook, have you sat through the expert witness deposition testimony from 3 different train crash mechanics expert witnesses in the Burbank and Glendale Metrolink crashes? I have. Have you been interviewed by/talked to two different NTSB train crash investigators about Metrolink crashes and the boomerang effect? I have. The boomeranging derailed train car in which I was IN would have ended up ON the 5 Freeway, squashing cars and their drivers, if not for being stopped by a nearly 100 year old concrete bridge over the freeway. I don’t see any such concrete bridges which would stop a boomeranging, derailing train car at the proposed Lyons Avenue crossing. The point is that NTSB, CPUC and Metrolink safety staff members look at the risks to surrounding people and buildings in a whole different way now, especially after the Glendale crash where the one train car hit the “jeep parked on the tracks”, derailed, crashed into a parked freight train parked right next to it (killing some passengers) and then bounced into a completely different oncoming Metrolink train, centerpunching its middle, and killing a very popular Metrolink conductor, among other people. So Brook, I suggest you shut the FCK up about things you know nothing about.
  8. CCJuly 19, 2011 at 4:32 pm
    Lets see… The City did a re-stripe to enable better traffic flow. Then, they removed a lane because it wasn’t working. Now, they are thinking of changing into a pedestrian community? Me thinks the traffic division is looking to make work. If these businesses want to get more foot traffic, they should move to Newhall.
  9. JayceJuly 20, 2011 at 8:26 am
    I remember when they originally added those after the earthquake. Made the street so much worse to travel.
  10. Lori RivasJuly 19, 2011 at 4:55 pm
    More shade is definitely needed to make Lyons more pedestrian friendly. That street is brutal to walk when it is hot.
  11. SplashGuardJuly 19, 2011 at 5:07 pm
    There used to be oak trees down the center of Lyons, but they were not car friendly…
  12. JayceJuly 20, 2011 at 8:18 am
    The entire SCV is brutal to walk when it’s hot
  13. Mr PerezJuly 20, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    Those poor street walkers
  14. ToddJuly 19, 2011 at 5:01 pm
    This is just about as ridiculous as it comes… make it more like Colorado Blvd? HA! What characteristics does Colorado have that Lyons (or any boulevard in the SCVizzle, for that matter) does not: a.) Popular eating and drinking establishments. (Cheesecake Factory, anyone? Melting Pot? Yard House? Louise’s? PF Changs? Il Fornaio? Although, Grand Panda is probably the best Chinese I’ve had in SCV… and IS better than PF… the 35er, Bar Celona, Barney’s Beanery…. great places to whet your whistle, Whill Wheaton.) b.) Popular retail establishments. Crate and Barrel, The Container Store, Pottery Barn, Gap, Urban Outfitters, Barnes and Noble, J. Crew and Apple Store. Sure we have these up at the Mall (some of them) but they’re not on Lyons, and I hardly think the Doctors’ Offices and bowling alley are ready to make way…. c.) Extensive entertainment options. Gold Class Cinemas (pay way too much, but to have your own recliner, a blanket and a pillow, while being served overpriced food and adult beverage, sometimes, well, its worth it!), Arclight is there as well. No theater in SCV holds a candle to the experience of either theater. d.) (and this is bigger than you know) an adjacent, parallel street full of businesses as well. If Colorado is passé for you… wander around Green Street some time. The restaurants there are better (imho, Gyu Kaku, Green Street Tavern, Green Street (two separate places), and Buca Di Beppo (yes, ok we have one)) than on Colorado itself. And its more quaint, and quieter. Nice boutiques there too for my wife to window-gaze. e.) Gelsons vs Smart and Final/Vallarta? Nuff said (although, I love me some carne asada from Vallarta on a Saturday afternoon!) and lest we forget: f.) ITS THE MOST POPULAR DESTINATION IN SOCAL FOR NEW YEAR’S EVE! If you don’t think that reputation alone is much of the draw, even in the middle of July, think again. I was just in Pasadena last night (oddly enough) seeing my cousins from Montana, and they said “hey, can you take us to where the Rose Parade is?”
  15. ToddJuly 19, 2011 at 5:08 pm
    Forgot to mention, the Pasadena Civic Auditorium and Convention Center in proximity as well as the hotels down at the east end of the drag all factor in heavily. Tourists with easy access: cash cow. What I’ll give even trade for: Caltech and PCC for CalArts, Masters’ Debater’s College and COC (are the Master’s students allowed out at night? Or to dance even? )
  16. SplashGuardJuly 19, 2011 at 5:20 pm
    On their bicycles. They set a good example. Are there more bike paths in this corridor plan.
  17. AlpinerJuly 19, 2011 at 9:10 pm
    Not to mention their mall is on Colorado. Also, you forgot the Green Street Cafe, not on Colorado, but I’d go anywhere for their Diana Salad.
  18. JeffJuly 19, 2011 at 5:23 pm
    “This is just about as ridiculous as it comes… make it more like Colorado Blvd? HA!” What’s so ridiculous about aiming high? Before Santa Monica was a job magnet and a destination, people avoided it because it was thought it had bad air. Before Long Beach reinvented itself, it was run down industrial space with few visitors. You have to start somewhere. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting the best.
  19. ToddJuly 19, 2011 at 5:31 pm
    Fair point. But Pasadena has the Rose Parade, and Santa Monica the beach. We’ve got, um, Magic Mountain? To accomplish this, you’re really talking about mega millions of $$$ of Petz hard earned money flowing from the Redevelopment Agency’s coffers, and then displacing dozens of business owners who have struggled to keep their butcher shops, pizza parlors and fast food chains open. (Don’t remember seeing a KFC on Colorado or Third Street…) Nevermind the parking and infrastructure that would need to be built to support it. We get NIMBYs rolling out in force when a kid’s swim team uses the pool, or our only hospital wants to add beds so it can support the quarter million people that need to use it as its the only hospital within 50 miles for some people…. you think this would fly? Not a snowball’s chance. (For the record…. I’d love it. Bring in some friggin tax base to the city already!!!! But no way no chance no how, never would fly here.)
  20. MikeJuly 19, 2011 at 5:28 pm
    You forgot something very important: http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/locations/view/Pasadena+Cafe
  21. ToddJuly 19, 2011 at 5:33 pm
    My wife would kill me for not mentioning Pita Jungle too… but I’m sure none of you (save for anyone from Phoenix) has any idea what it is… but next time you’re all there, please stop in!)
  22. CCJuly 20, 2011 at 7:15 am
    I dream of an Intelligentsia in SCV, but I don’t think the vast majority of citizens here are ready to take the giant leap up from Starbucks. They really don’t know what they are missing. What’s your preferred pour? I am currently experimenting with the Aeropress. It really makes a nice espresso, but it may be ‘too’ pure. I sorta like the sludge from a French Press.
  23. MikeJuly 20, 2011 at 10:15 am
    Method that I do the most, about 60% of the time, is manual pourover (Hario v60 cone). As brewed methods go, it’s pretty far from the French Press taste (& feel), but if I could only do one, that’s it. My favorite, period, is a siphon pot, but it’s tricky and there’s a narrow margin of error. But when it’s right, it’s right. I just got back into the Aeropress in the last 3 or 4 months. I really like it. I’ve settled on a method that I like a lot. In Scandinavia, they have Aeropress Championships and the finalists post their recipes, so I follow one of those. I don’t do French Press too often, mainly because I’m usually in the company of people who don’t care as much and I can’t drink that much coffee. My espresso machine broke a few months ago, and I need to fix it. I really miss espresso. I may have said it before, but I’ll say it again: Undergrounds Coffee in the basement of Real Life Church in the 91354 is by far the best place to get coffee in SCV (my kitchen excluded )
  24. Mr PerezJuly 20, 2011 at 12:25 pm
    We need to get you a Masters Degree in Brewology or possibly the PhD I just grind the beans, put in drip maker filter, add water, and brew lol
  25. Mr PerezJuly 20, 2011 at 8:35 pm
    Do they have mixed frui-frui coffee drinks there?
  26. CCJuly 21, 2011 at 2:10 pm
    Thanks Mike, I’ll have to check out the championships. I would really like a nice espresso maker, but haven’t had the courage to put down the serious dough. So for now, the Aeropress will have to do. The siphon pot is to scary for me but I agree it makes a wonderful cup of coffee. Whole Foods Celebration Roast is tasty and the roast is fresh.
  27. Lori RivasJuly 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm
    Best coffee in SCV: Taste of Hope, Ethiopian fair trade organic French roast whole beans (ordered through AbundantHarvestOrganics.com), prepared in my French press. I’d put my cup o’joe up against all y’alls.
  28. MikeJuly 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    I’d be happy to throw down, but I have bad news: you will lose. You lost me at French roast #charred #fightingwords #coffeesnob
  29. Lori RivasJuly 21, 2011 at 8:01 pm
    I confess to my emerging fogey-ness, because though I have seen those number signs followed by words many times, I just don’t know what it means. Some kind of Twitter reference? Anyway, set it up, coffeeman. Location? Time? Place? Could be my house. A Saturday morning. Let’s do this.
  30. Lori RivasJuly 21, 2011 at 8:12 pm
    Or, maybe, The Undergrounds will let us stage at their place. I only need to heat water and grind beans. My son works there – I’ll work my connections.
  31. CCJuly 21, 2011 at 8:43 pm
    Lori, they’re called Hashtags, but let me know when the throw down happens. I just might learn some new tricks. It’s been over a year since Newhall won over Intelligentcia (hard for me to comprehend), but Intelligentcia Black Cat still reigns supreme! So BRING IT!
  32. CCJuly 21, 2011 at 8:40 pm
    Yeah, I’m not much of a French Roast fan. I prefer Guatemala and Costa Rica beans with a Medium/dark roast.
  33. CCJuly 21, 2011 at 8:44 pm
    Maybe I’ll splurge on the Geisha beans…hehehe.
  34. MikeJuly 19, 2011 at 5:31 pm
    Gelson’s remains the best supermarket the 1980s has to offer. If a town already has a decent famers’ market, a Whole Foods and a Trader Joe’s, there is little than Gelson’s adds. ¡Viva Vallarta!
  35. ToddJuly 19, 2011 at 5:39 pm
    Gelsons serves a very distinct population that I believe is underserved here in SCV…. the “chosen people” such as my wife. Then again, I usually only go to the ones in the more heavily Jewish neighborhoods, so they may cater towards that in those markets. When I need my Jewish ethnic food fix, well, its usually Canter’s… but otherwise, its Gelson’s! As for the best the 1980′s has to offer… the struggling Hows Markets wins. One of the owners (IIRC, a SCV resident) is a decendent of the original Hughes’ grocery chain, as I understand it. The stores were great but struggling to match up agains Ralphs and Walmart, regrettably. I think theres only two remaining open after attempting to penetrate the Valley… hope they can survive.
  36. Mr PerezJuly 19, 2011 at 9:21 pm
    Um, not to forget some form of historical architecture and Jack In The Crack on the corner ain’t cuttin’ it.
  37. PetzJuly 19, 2011 at 5:39 pm
    Petz is damn proud of the GOPers and the bipartisan support from sober Dems who passed Cut-Cap-and Balance legislation in the House tonight. The folks on Lyons better plan on funding their own improvements-the days of “almost shovel ready” are drawing to a close.
  38. ToddJuly 19, 2011 at 5:40 pm
    Relevant: No. Give it up Steve. Nobody cares here anymore. Take it over to your little blog.
  39. Mr PerezJuly 20, 2011 at 2:47 pm
    That blog is dead……D-E-D…..dead!
  40. Lori RivasJuly 19, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    About 7 years ago, the kids and I walked into Steve’s Florist, looking to buy a small quantity of florist supplies, for a school project. When Steve understood what we were going to make with the supplies (3D glasses), he just gave us the supplies. Another time, when we were studying flower parts, we went to Steve’s to buy different flowers for dissection and identification. Again, he just gave us the flowers. Very friendly owners, very giving to my kids.
  41. spineflower2July 19, 2011 at 6:55 pm
    Before you try to make the SCV roads like those in other comunities, remember that we lack a flat grid of roads liek the SFV and many other areas have. Lyons is the only way to get from I-5 to Newhall and many parts of Valencia (at least withough going MILES out of your way). The SCV is more like a hand with canyons flowing to a core. You can’t easily “hop” from one canyon to another. So the reality is that streets like Lyons are major traffic flow conduits, and attemps to slow them down will simply make people use other routes, further degrading businesses along Lyons.
  42. Phil EllisJuly 20, 2011 at 11:04 am
    And don’t forget that Lyons is used as a by-pass when the freeways are blocked.
  43. CCJuly 19, 2011 at 8:27 pm
    The irony here is that the City cut down the beautiful pedestrian trees to make more room for cars. Then, they wonder why it isn’t pedestrian friendly. We saved the trees on McBean (for now), but it is just a matter of time until the City goes after them again. The problem with our City planners is that they don’t think more than 1-2 years out, and they don’t know how to say no.
  44. AlpinerJuly 19, 2011 at 9:18 pm
    Anybody remember that there are only businesses on one side of much of Lyons? Colorado Blvd. it ain’t. Sure it needs to be cleaned up a bit, but who is going to pay for that? The businesses? Sounds like planners are simply looking for work.
  45. Mr PerezJuly 19, 2011 at 11:08 pm
    And if you truly want it to be like Pasadena, you gotta get a homeless guy with a dog to sit at the freeway exit.
  46. SplashGuardJuly 20, 2011 at 11:19 am
    The re-developers are looking for something to re-develop. Looks like they are trying to re-develop the gridlock on Lyons we had after the earthquake. I live south of Lyons, so I expect emergency services will find it hard to get to folks when the traffic is bad. Ambulances and fire engines will not be able to count on driving on the wrong side of the rode down Lyons. They will have to weave through residential streets behind everyone else avoiding driving on Lyons. Or think of what happens when there’s a freeway closure on the FIVE. Which street do they use as the “detour”? Maybe the solution is to tear down some residential housing to build some new streets, so that Lyons can have mixed use residential and commercial. Makes sense to anyone who will profit from the “plan.”
  47. Mr PerezJuly 20, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    And one can guess whose apartments or houses would be demolished lol
  48. NFICJuly 20, 2011 at 6:00 am
    The OVOV traffic plan calls for Lyons to be restriped between Wiley and Railroad to 6 lanes which causes the loss of existing on-street parking due to the restriping. Additionally, trafffic counts on Lyons east of Orchard Village were 47,000 in 2007, were 49,000 in the old General Plan and are 52,000 in OVOV. For the section west of Main Street, the daily traffic count in 2007 was 20,000 vehicles, under the old General Plan 25,000 and OVOV 24,000 vehicles. I’m still looking for the traffic improvement Paul Brotzman promised. Sorry Jeff, no room for bike lanes and you can forget about that on street parking…
  49. SplashGuardJuly 20, 2011 at 11:19 am
    Picky.
  50. Lori RivasJuly 21, 2011 at 8:09 pm
    Went to the Lyons redevelopment shindig. It was a self-guided exercise to put stickers on maps, rating appearance and parking of businesses along Lyons. There was also a sticker vote for favorite façade (Victorian, Spanish, Cape Cod and another). Plus water and cookies. In all, it was a shallow exercise, essentially gathering public support so that the City can lay into “ugly” building owners. There was no opinion sought on relevance, pedestrian needs, community needs, preserving existing businesses, nothing. Just pretty and parking. Not really sure why the City had to stage this event.

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