October 11, 2011 – Daily Brief

Its a total farce that a red cent would be wasted on this garbage bill. While I agree that the majority of these children are victims of their parent’s bad choices, this bill does nothing to resolve the situation.

Even that lib Jeff thinks it’s not a good idea. I am at peace with that!

I understand that AB131 amends the current Donahoe Higher Education Act, so that now undocumented students, who meet all the same criteria as resident students (3 years CA high school, etc.), will now be eligible for state and federal financial aid. Is that the synopsis? I’ve only scanned the bill a couple of times, and have not been reading up on the criticisms. Sounds like a good thing. Why are you all opposed?

What’s undocumented mean? Aren’t these folks documented in their countries of origin? They are illegal aliens. Let’s stop sugarcoating it. When all the people that are here legally have been helped, perhaps then we can talk about helping those who are not here legally. Our state is in a dire financial mess. People that are here illegally are a drain on our states resources. If our state were sitting on mountains of cash I do not think as many people would be opposed.

Lori at the risk of oversimplifying, what does illegal alien foreign national mean to you? Do you normally espouse rewarding folks who break the law?

I normally espouse helping those in need. I am not interested in a debate about undocumented persons. I am only asking why folks are against the proposition, aside from standard “don’t help the undocumented because they are illegal” reasons. I am wondering if I don’t have a complete understanding of the proposition, if there is something in the language of the proposition that gives unfair advantages, or something sneaky.

Lori your last name is Rivas. Did your family legally immigrate into the United States? Allowing ANYONE from ANYWHERE to enter and then remain in the USA who did not go through the legal immigration process is in and of itself an unfair advantage. You must be aware that legal immigration requires proving financial means for self-support and/or a sponsor, good health, no criminal antecedents, etc and takes most folks years of filing out paperwork and waiting in their home country, and paying all of the appropriate fees before being granted permission to emigrate. These Dream Act benefits are for students whose parents came here illegally and brought their children with them in a blatant and willful violation of our immigration laws. Now you and Brown/Cedillo want to reward them by giving them in state tuition which is already at a 2/3 discounted rate, and then additionally give them even more taxpayer money via grants and scholarships, which must be paid for by the legal residents/taxpayers of the USA and California which are both running huge budget deficits. You will be among the first to complain when there are more educational budget cuts, even larger class sizes, fewer books, and tuition costs continue to escalate, etc. There is only so much money to pay teachers, keep the facilities going, etc and even more students will not be paying the full fare. I know you home school but that will eventually end and then what. If you do not understand that this system is patently unfair to all those waiting for permission to legally enter the USA, legal immigrants, naturalized citizens, native-born citizens, and legal out of state students, and even further incentivizes illegal immigration you are not thinking clearly. Moreover, you sidestepped my previous legitimate questions.

Berta, I am not going to debate immigration issues here, and certainly not in regards to AB131.

Well then, where to debate it? This is scvTALK after all.

Let me see if I can cut through the rhetoric to help you out, Lori. At issue is the fact that, while this bill does address students who ended up in this country through no actions of their own, it stops short in that state funds are being allocated to students who will not be able to take advantage of their degree to contribute to the U.S. because they are still here illegally. The bill provides no methods of obtaining citizenship (temporary, permanent or otherwise), so it seems like a waste of our taxpayer dollars to put it in place. From the surface, it appears the only REAL good this bill might do for students here illegally is if they are able use their degree back in their native country. Which then begs the question, is it California’s responsibility to give assistance to students who will not be able to contribute their talents from their earned degree here in the U.S? Especially when, as stated in previous posts, there are US citizens and those here in this country legally who are hard pressed to afford a college education.

Thanks, Your Web Guru. Thinking aloud, and assuming that children raised in the US are not going to return to the country of their birth anytime soon (for various reasons), would we then not want that community to be educated, rather than not? Would we then not want that community to have the means to break free from bonds of poverty and despair, which leads to its own expenses (children dependent on welfare, incarcerations, general angst towards society, etc.)? There is far more use of a college education than just landing a related job. I think that ship has, or is, sailing, anyway. Some “uses” of a college education could include: volunteering, parenting, peer educating, activism, and general life outlook.

Nor answer three direct questions.

Since Congressman McKeon is busy, I have done so already and he can hitch a ride on my Condemn Iran and it’s Ayatollahs Train…nuff said!

I didn’t mean that particular LTE was ugly, just that the backlash to the bill is going to be ugly. For what it’s worth, I wish Brown hadn’t signed this. In fact he should have vetoed it. I’m sympathetic to kids who were brought here through no fault of their own, do well in high school, aspire to college, and have solid GPAs. But life is tough and we already give these students (who are state-less, really, not American and not quite Mexican or Guatemalan etc) in-state tuition rates. To me, if the Latino community cared about the fate of these students and wanted them to attend college, they should establish a scholarship fund especially for students in this situation. If they already have one, they should double down on it and expand it. Now we’ve got this Dream act and it is a zero sum game. Funds given to students like this won’t go to American students who might be equally as deserving. And politically, this bill is very bad optics and will serve as an engine to motivate conservatives throughout 2012. The referendum to overturn this will win with over 60% of the vote

Fair enough, Jeff. Your point is well taken. Perez, I’d love to meet up. Where and when?

We have been doing Tuesdays mornings at Underground/Real Life church a little after 8AM.

A Muslim and an Atheist meeting for coffee at a Christian “establishment.” Next thing you know, Packer fans will be rooting for the Bears to win … 0_o

Hahahahahaha @Nate #sad

A Lion loss helped the Packers more then a Bear loss. I was rooting for some obscure rule that would give them both a loss…. no such luck. Prediction: Lions fall to the Niners this week and Petz claims liberal plants are responsible.

I want to hear the true definition of a “liberal.” I am not accepting the defacto “you don’t think like me so therefore you are this” mantra.

And I LOVE how he is now a Lions fan but denied such previously. That would be the definition of Bandwaggoning.

Indeed. If it involved a fair, legal pathway to citizenship for college students who take advantage of this act, then it could at least have merit from a progressive point of view. But in this case, what’s the point? It’s a progressive move that dead ends with no true potential positive outcome for our society. I just watched a Vanguard documentary about a family here illegally whose daughter, who arrived with the family when she was a toddler, was graduating from UCLA. She admitted her future was questionable as, despite having a degree, she could not take advantage of the opportunities that may avail legal residents with a college education.

Saw the same show. The thing I was struck with was we subsidize the education but the reality is that these graduates can not legally land a job in this country that utilizes their education unless an employer is willing to sponsor them.

Actually, if you read the U.S. District Court for Arizona’s first published opinion invalidating Arizona’s “papers please” law, the judge opined in detail that it isn’t illegal to work in the U.S. without a Green Card. The 9th Circuit agreed with her when they refused to overturn her preliminary injunction against enforcement of Arizona’s new law. Unemployed Canadians, come on down….they love Phoenix and Tucson because it’s so warm.

The Judge who ruled that you do not need to have at least a green card to work in the USA should be removed from the bench for incompetence. From the following US Immigration website: http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/greencards.html “A United States Permanent Resident Card, commonly known as a Green Card, serves as proof of a person’s lawful permanent resident status in the United States. An individual with a Green Card has the right to live and work permanently in the United States. There are various ways to qualify for a Green Card. It is recommended to learn about the different criteria of eligibility for Green Cards and to determine how you can best prepare for your application. The Green Card application process also depends if the applicant is applying from within the United States or from abroad. ” Therefore, if you do not have at least a Green Card or an equivalent work visa you DO NOT have the right to live and work in the USA.

While a green card serves as proof it isn’t necessary to have one. We have many thousands of people here on a work visa with no green card.

As the spouse of a snow-back, I’d like to provide some perspective about what went on in New York in the days after World War II. Large numbers of Eastern European Jews were admitted to the United States as refugees, many of whom had been born in countries which no longer existed (e.g. Galicja, Lodomeria/Volhynia, Montenegro). U.S. industry also needed skilled engineers and master tool makers, so the U.S. companies heavily recruited from Canada’s aircraft industry which was gearing down post war. Even by 1969, in order to receive a NY State Regent’s Scholarship, which you won by taking a merit-based exam, if you or your parents were Canadians, you still had to (1) prove you and your parents had Green Cards, (2) prove your parents had been paying NY and Federal income tax and Social Security tax ever since they came into the country and (3) apply to become a U.S. citizen, whether you wanted to be or not. The New York Legislature was particularly adamant about Item 2 above. Citizens of Canada were not eligible for “foreign student scholarships” to NY State owned colleges, even though we knew students from Barbados, Egypt, Pakistan and Iran who got those scholarships. The only way a Canadian citizen could get a scholarship to a NY State owned college was if you made it onto a hockey team…and if you broke your arm or leg and couldn’t skate, you were politely invited not to return for Spring Semester unless your Canadian relatives paid your tuition and student fees. That meant Canadian women were simply out of luck if they wanted to go to a NY State owned college. “We” went through (1), (2) and (3) above. In retrospect, what I find odd is that Canadians didn’t get bent out of shape by the rules above. I guess outside of the hockey arena, Canadians are passive saps who don’t understand their ‘human rights’. My best friend, who is still the most brilliant person I ever met, had as his father a man who was born in the Kingdom of Montenegro, which was hijacked by the Kingdom of Serbia in 1922, and then Montenegro was wrestled away and annexed by Mussolini in 1941. Needless to say, my friend’s dad left Montenegro in 1941 without papers. My friend’s mom left Western Galicja, which had been annexed by Poland after she was born, and then invaded by the Germans in 1941. She got to Finland without papers and then to the U.S. by 1951. My friend was born in Manhattan in 1953. By 1969 my friend’s mom had died, and the State Department was still screwing around trying to figure out what to do with my friend’s dad, who by then was teaching at Cornell Medical School. My friend could not get NY State to waive the Green-Card-for-parents requirement, so he forefitted his Regents Scholarship and acceptance at Cornell and Columbia, and took off for Oxford. Nobody in his family got bent out of shape either, in terms of their ‘human rights’ because they had been through human rights deprivations far worse than not getting a free ride for college. And now, to get my kids discounted Canadian citizen tuition at any public Canadian university or college, I have to prove than they are “Canadian citizens by birthright”. That means we need dead Grandma’s passport, a current Canadian parent passport, and proof that the little darlings got their official plastic “Citizen of Canada” cards before 2009. That’s Canadian citizens for you. Not getting all bent out of shape about “violation of their human rights”.

We need to get you over to Tuesday Coffee morning meetings WTF lol

On this I applaud you.

I am with you on this Berta.

As am I. But holy CRAP look at that paragraph!

LOL I was going to poke at the paragraphs but…

It’s called a Bertagraph. But I like what she has to say!

OMG Nate and Gang Fang agreeing with me!!!!!!! The planets must be in perfect alignment…Seriously, thanks guys.

Tim I am a “white people” who is also of Hispanic ancestry. Gil Cedillo does not scare me, he infuriates and sickens me. He also gives all of “us” a bad name and makes it look like we do not care to respect USA law and come here with our hands out for all the freebies paid for by the legal residents and taxpayers. Moreover, please note Brown also dismissed E-verify requirements in California, other than on a strictly “voluntary” basis. What a joke!

And where do you propose the aggregate needed for construction come from?

Littlerock.

That’s assuming that they can acquire the mineral rights as well.

That’s a reach assuming all of us are white and that all the illegal aliens are brown.

You are correct, and you know what they say about ASSume JP. You and I are living proof that SCV Lover‘s assumptions are incorrect. Illegal immigrants are of different races including Caucasian, Asian, Black, etc. Some are also an ethnicity such as Hispanic, etc. Some of us are “white” but turn “brown” after exposure to the sun too. Obama’s aunt and uncle in the country illegally for years for instance are Black as are many of the illegals from Brazil. Most illegals from China are Asian.