May 8, 2012 – Daily Brief

A “house” cleaning is in order. If we can get rid of Buck, then all his hangers-on, starting with the Haughtiers, will fade into obscurity. Don’t worry about them though, as Dr. Venkman would say: surely someone with their qualifications would have no trouble finding a top-flight job in either the food service or housekeeping industries.

“clean out the barn” Seeing what I’m seeing, the cure might be worse than the disease. Team McKeon can be counted on for doing whatever is in their raw, naked, self-interest. It’s not complicated. Person A: “Why did Buck do this?” Person B: “Because it benefits him financially/gives him more power/enhances his stature on the Hill” Person A: “oh.” People who quote the bible and call others an abomination (it wasn’t just Haueter invoking holy spells in those emails) in a political context are much less clear cut. The IHOP meetings will be thrilling this summer, I think.

Your analysis of Team McKeon is no longer accurate. I grant you, it used to be accurate, but no more. Bob and Lynn Haueter got drunk with power and now it is all about the Haueters now. Here is an updated analysis: Person A: “Why did Bob/Lynn do this?” Person B: “We can’t ask. The last person who did lost their job and had to leave town.” Person A: “oh.”

True. These two are amusing to watch. I wonder what scripture Lynn used to justify her divorce.

My main concerns with Scott Wilk hinge on the role he played in promoting the G&L multi-storied office buildings on McBean Parkway — all the time knowing that the project’s proposed hospital wing was thrown in to try to make the commercial overdevelopment palpable. As hospital CEO, Roger Seaver, finally admitted, he could not guarantee that the proposed hospital building would be built. Building a hospital requires approval from boards, submission and approval of applications for bonds, and meeting requirements from many different agencies — none of these things were part of the G&L proposal. As a hired consultant Wilk knew that, yet he was willing to be purchased by an outside developer to mislead the people in his community. Outrageous side-effects included changing residential zoning around the hospital and ignoring the threat to longtime residents’ quality of life (Newhall Land was shamefully quiet during the whole procedure which also included the sale of donated land to G&L). I wonder what Wilk would do as an elected representative if monied outside interests forced him to choose between their projects and the well-being of our valley residents.

As a hired consultant, Scott capably performed his job, just as he will capably perform his job as our representative in Sacramento, where we will be his clients.

As someone who lives near the hospital, my beef is with the city over this and not the developer or any paid consultant. The city council should be the ones looking out for our best interests and they should have stopped this.

Wilk was also the hired consultant for the Open Space Preservation District property taxation that myself and others fought hard against. He did his job well as should be expected. My beef was with the city, not the consultant. I hold nothing against his participation in that effort. Scott Wilk is clearly the best choice to represent us in this election.

Exactly. McLean, Weste and Ferry… Are you listening?

Linda your observations about the hospital-expansion-scam as “bait” to get the office complex approved are clearly correct. There is not a real estate developer or investor in the universe who does not seek to obtain the greatest advantage possible, over the people on the other side of the table, in terms of “deal terms”. Sadly, in the case of the hospital office complex, Scott Wilk was apparently using his brains and connections for the entity on the other side of the table from the city. That does not mean that he would do the same thing were he elected to the Assembly. I don’t think he’s that dumb. I’d take a smart legislator over an air-headed puppet any day of the week. Specifically on the issue of City Council members voting on matters concerning their campaign contributors, the bad news is that California’s appellate courts have ruled that elected officials are NOT disqualified from voting on matters affecting their campaign contributors, because of California free speech principles. The good news is that the U.S. Attorney’s office for the Central District of California, and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals hold a view that “honest services fraud” by public officials may occur even if what they have done is NOT violative of state law. See generally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honest_services_fraud Just a few weeks ago a Deputy U.S. Attorney in California entered into a plea agreement with a California elected official involving the official’s voting on a matter pertaining to one of the official’s campaign contributors. Back in 2003, 3 of the 7 members of the Clark County Nevada Commission (like California’s County Boards of Supervisors) were indicted and convicted under that Federal “honest services law”. A fourth Commissioner resigned and fled the state. See, generally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Kenny In short, the “same Federal lawyers” who scrutinized and then prosecuted the Clark County Commissioners have jurisdiction in California too. As former Illinois Governor Rob Blagojevich learned to his chagrin, staying within the boundaries of Illinois law concerning elected officials’ conduct did not save him. More specifically on topic with respect to the hospital office complex, the serious culpability for “dumb deal making” lies with the City’s attorneys and planning staff who negotiated the Development Agreement for the hospital office complex, allowing their client to “take the bait” and “give away the store”. Those people are supposed to be professionals capable of negotiating the best deal for the City which is possible. In the case of the deal terms concerning the development on the hospital property, those professionals clearly did not do so. Ignoring Newhall Land’s existence for the purpose of good sportsmanship, over and above the hospital office complex deal, I’ve personally seen the City of Santa Clarita’s professional staff take a massive dive on three big projects not developed by Newhall Land. I personally found it profoundly frustrating to watch the City’s attorneys “give away the store” in Santa Clarita when that same law firm has taken a “hard as nails stance” on big projects in their representation of the City of Moorpark and in the City of Camarillo in the last 25 or so years. On one of those three big Santa Clarita projects where I reviewed the City’s files, I found the City’s bond counsel (from one of the most elite law firms in the U.S.A.) writing detailed letters to Ken Pulskamp’s predecessor as City Manager telling him what was wrong with the developer’s lawyer’s draft documents, line by line. Usually a lawyer only writes those kinds of letters to clients where the “employee-agent in charge” as a fiduciary is making decisions on deal terms and wording which are against his principal’s business and legal interests. In that one bond financing deal, I took the final document and checked it, line by line, against the bond counsel’s advice letters and discovered that the old City Manager ignored the city’s bond counsel’s advice on every single issue. Of course the developer getting the benefit of that old City Manager taking a dive was said to be a poker buddy of the old City Manager. Since there is a “history” in Santa Clarita of senior city employees and attorneys “taking a dive” when dealing with developers, I would have loved to be a bug on the wall listening to the hospital office complex deal documents being negotiated, since in the cases where the City is going to take a dive, it has usually been the developer’s lawyer who drafts the documents. There’s an old adage that he who controls the typing and editing of the document controls the deal. The significant difference from the normal dive taking I’ve seen with respect to the City of Santa Clarita was that at the time of the Council’s votes on those hospital office complex deal documents, technically competent voters and taxpayers had read and understood the documents, and during each of those people’s three minutes they bluntly told the Council what was wrong with the deal terms and the legal nuances in the documents. So in terms of evaluating the Council’s performance on the hospital office complex deal, on a Councilmember by Councilmember basis the voters will still have to evaluate whether the “vote harming the public interest” was taken with an understanding of the bad deal terms and draftsmanship benefitting the developer, or whether that “yes” vote was taken simply because the Councilperson is profoundly shallow, naive, stupid, airheaded, etc.

So are you going to vote for Dante…or the Dem?

Petz gets squeamish when house cleaning includes Buck Mckeon.. Petz I am disappoint. I don’t think Lincoln or Reagan would be playing it safe when someone has so badly bastardized your principals and political party. Where is the madder than hell Petz that gets angry at to many light bulbs?

Petz is outraged he was asked to stop gawking while at the Tilted Kilt.

I’m channeling the Antelope Valley Petz Outraged that our city is buying used buses from Santa Clarita via ebay. Why can’t these two governments just transfer title between them, the buses are essentially worthless. The two agencies cooperate all the time anyway, why can’t they just transfer title? It costs nothing. We need proper use of taxpayer funds in the AV!

There isn’t an “Antelope Valley Petz” any more than there is a “Kashyyyk Chewbacca”. You go to the AV, and there are Petzes as far as the eye can see.

What happened to Cash for Clunkers? You just don’t give away a valuable asset to a neighboring community, unless they load up some Jakes Way residents and send them along for the ride. Rex Parris takes the SCV for another ride.

Coffee. Nose. Good one Petz.

Cash for Clunkers. Is that a Super PAC for tired, old incumbents?

Now THAT’S funny!

Rex Parris is the Lando Calrissian of the Antelope Valley… never trust him he will see you to the Empire and you will end up in Jabba’s palace!

I will refrain from making a reference on who Jabba is

Didn’t expect the Star Wars Mike D reference…

It appears that while the City is donating two vehicles that are over their useful service life, the AVTA is starting a new service that will run between Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley. This will allow Santa Clarita to discontinue Route 795, a similar service. This appears it will save money in operating costs for running the service and maintenance costs of keeping two old vehicles in running condition. Looks like a good deal for SC taxpayers.

I have to agree with you there. I was hoping for something new in pub food, but alas it is the same ol’ deep fried, batter covered fare. The place was sort of fun, but the staff couldn’t keep up with the patrons and frankly our server was a bit dim. I did think it was funny that when she was ready to present the bill she really turned on the charm. Not a surprise, but it really is about the cute girls (and one guy in a kilt who seemed the brightest of the bunch). The food, beer, and sport tv all get a grade of…meh.

Looking forward to FINALLY being able to attend a venue on a regular basis where my custom made Kilt won’t draw befuddled stares. And honestly people, keep your dollar bills. I’m not that desperate and I DO have standards.

Just cross your legs when you sit on a bar stool, will ya?

Ever been there when there are bag pipers? I appreciate that attempt at “authenticity”, but it was almost impossible to have a conversation if they were close to you. Not to mention the rubber they tried to pass off as chicken strips. All in all, I’m quite disappointed with the place (though it may be that I’m not in their target demographic).

I don’t see a whole lot of support for Buck and either of the Haughtiers. The rank and file of SCV GOPers has had enough of these half-wits.

I think that’s why it’s so odd to outsiders, like myself, who have no stake in the local GOP. It really seems to be about personalities and power. There doesn’t seem to be anyone standing with the McKeons and Hauteurs but themselves and they looking to go down kicking and screaming, so loud you can hear the shrieks. Quite often, political loyalty blinds us to misdeeds, corruption, dishonesty and abuses of power. It’s quite remarkable what happens when people feel they have an alternative to the leaders they had come to accept. The McKeons are without armor in the SCV it seems. Buck has a lot of reserve strength, but at this point I would be surprised if Patricia does better than 3rd.

That’s politics, isn’t it?

As a conservative, it’s nice to see the rank and file stand up against the incumbent and his cronies when that incumbent is out of touch and his cronies are clearly out of line. Truly, I do not know a single conservative that is supporting Buck or defending his mouthpiece Haughtier. I will obviously be voting for Acosta, but I plan to take it a step further; I won’t patronize any establishment that has a McKeon sign (either McKeon) on their property. I figure if they support crooks they don’t need my business. It’s a bit of a sacrifice for me too, I just saw a sign in the parking lot of Athena’s and Baskin Robbins.

Don’t hold the sins of the landlords against the tenants. It appears like Buck went to all these strip mall owners/managers and got permission to hang his signs.

I realize that’s how it works, but by buying from those tenants I am putting money in the pockets of the landlords who support the McKeons. Not going to happen.

You do understand that the landlord is paid a flat lease and not a per-scoop or per-gyro royalty, right?

Yes I do. You do realize that if I don’t buy at those stores, they can’t pay their landlords with my money, don’t you?

It’s not unusual (in particular in retail spots) for a lease to have a “percentage of sales” provision. So Gene may still have to go without his BR.

Actually your protest is very Don Quixote’ish. If anything voice your concern with the property owner but don’t take it out on the innocent ice cream cones.

Quixotic. #disappoint

Actually, the approach you outline is the Quixoric one. You see, as I’m not a tenant, I have no standing in the eyes of the landlords. I cannot withhold anything from them, why would they care that their signs bother me? If, on the other hand, the tenants knew people weren’t going to shop at the strip malls and retail centers that have McKeon signs up, then they would make life difficult for the landlords. Having the tenants do the complaining would have an effect. I’d like to say that what you suggest would be “tilting at windmills” but that would be as inaccurate as you calling my approach “Quixote-ish” or whatever the word you made up was.

Again, made up word or not the point is still valid in that your protest will be in vain. The signs will remain and ice cream will still be consumed by people who ignore the signs

more to the point, with the closing of the Saugus “see you tomorrow” BR, where does one turn for a decent scoop in this town if one does not want to support a McKeon-supporting strip mall?

Ben and Jerry’s since they are clearly Left leanin’ hippies

Whoever said it was a protest? I know it’s hard for you to understand, but imagine it was a “Yes on Prop 8″ sign instead of a McKeon sign. By the way, I have it on good authority that some of the McKeon signs may be placed without the owners permission. Notice that many of them are on empty buildings with out of town owners. The guy and his goons are pure sleaze, get rid of them.

“… but I plan to take it a step further; I won’t patronize any establishment that has a McKeon sign …” Webster: “: the act of objecting or a gesture of disapproval ; especially : a usually organized public demonstration of disapproval” Could be a protest …

Scott: 1 , Cp’n Gene: 0 I cannot state my political endorsements, as I was recently reminded, but let’s not assume I am against what you are for Also, I have noticed the same thing you have with empty spaces being plastered with political signs.

Scott gave an accurate definition of a protest, what I am doing would not “usually” be called a protest though because it is not a “usually organized public demonstration of disapproval”. What I am doing is more of a boycott. But don’t let the facts keep you from taking a victory lap, apparently it’s real important to you.

Don’t get your panties in a twist, it was just an observation. No laps are being taken. So hyper-sensitive.

Did you think I was talking to you, Scott? I wasn’t, I was responding to Mr. Perez’s “Scott: 1 , Cp’n Gene: 0″ comment. Still a bit on the hypersensitive side, eh Mr. Inky? ☺

I wasn’t sure so I thought I would cover my bases. That’s MR. Inky to you … oh wait .. never mind …

Hmmmm. What Bill do we know who calls the president Hussein Obama?

Mr W. Adolf Reynolds, Please use my name correctly in future public comments. Thanks, The Prez

Yeah, it is quite an embarrassment for my party. Thankfully, it looks like their heyday may be coming to an end…I HOPE.

Hello.

+1 for skyrim mention

LOL who’s the computer game hater that thumbs downed that

She sent me a “shame on you Steve” message last weekend.

Lynn or Pepper? Please share it with us.

Pepper said “Shame on you Steve” I can’t repeat the last message sent from Lynn after I criticized “Buck” for voting to raise the debt limit. That’s when I knew it was over… Petz can’t even go in GOP headquarters anymore.

I checked the “Contact” page and saw email address. Maybe you should send the “shame on you Steve” email to them? http://truthliesdeception.com/contact-us/

A name like Pepper Parkinson sounds like it comes from some novel that’s especially heavy-handed with the symbolism. She’s the character that can never catch a break. Sympathy for Pepper is used as a weapon that people with fake problems use to bludgeon one another. Uttering her name, or referencing her plight had a Goowin’s Law-type quality about it around town. Once they’ve traded cast out the demons in one another, the bickering captains of society would reach for the Pepper Parkinson in their pocket – a rhetorical quick draw.

I’m telling you, you need to be a writer! That sounds straight out of Steinbeck novel.

Wasn’t she the name of the lead character on the TV show Police Woman in the 1970s?

Isn’t that a character in the “Iron Man” series?

Pepper Potts

Isn’t that the name of a common household spice/condiment?

no- it’s a prescription from a Venice dispensary

I think the name is Parker Posey not Pepper Parkinson and she works at the library. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzbDdgWiaS0

Curious to see how it plays out, but I wonder if Frank’s item to re-allocate some time for early public comments is something of an olive branch to the Boydston side of the tracks. As for the mayorship, it’s like a lot of things about our political structure in the city – it made sense at the time, but it’s hard to defend logically. It’s crazy that you’d appoint a mayor for a period that continues past their term. Little would be lost in making the change, and Ferry would likely serve a full year this way, wouldn’t he? Put me on record as predicting both items will pass.

Reagan was libeling and insulting government employees, bureaucrats, professionals and such. You know, from the guy who delivers your mail every day to the director of FEMA to the skilled scientist at NOAA who writes our weather report everyday. The Haueters are more like political appointees. They are not government employees at all; they’re paid by the office of Buck McKeon more than likely, not something in the executive branch which has civil service standards and such. Your comparison is not apt and, what’s more, it’s insulting to compare professional non-political staff with hacks.

I think Reagan was simply stating what most of us know, the government run things in an inefficient and often times unhelpful manner. The giant bureaucracy is not very helpful to the individual when they need it. Having been a part of that bureaucracy as a soldier in the Army, the inefficiency was an inside joke to all soldiers. Having to deal with the VA as a private citizen has not changed my feeling n this at all. While it’s true that the Huaeter’s are not so much part of the bureaucracy as they are part of the creation of it on the political side, they still don’t invoke confidence in our governments ability to handle things by being a government employee.

Bureacracy in the Army? Weren’t you a Blue Chorder?

Queen of Battle!

I was the King of Battle until this AG crest kicked my arse lol

Right. And private health care companies are a beacon to efficiency and rationality. We have the greatest health outcomes in the world for the least cost…errr wait..it’s exactly opposite of that. And you want to blame the VA & Medicare for that? Two organizations with greater scale and buying power than any other provider? If the Haueters are “government workers” aren’t guys in the Army too? Sorry but when REpublicans complain that the government doesn’t work, it feels like they’re actually bragging. Just yesterday they voted to oust Dick Lugar and put up a guy who thinks bipartisanship and compromise are four letter words. Your complaints ring hollow to me and your comparison of hired political hacks with professional civil servants is inaccurate on its face.

Who (and where) is Pepper Parkinson? From Lynn Haueter’s emails it sounds like Eileen and her posse of (senior) thugs went all Goodfella’s on her!

Pepper and Eileen have served together on the board of the Republican Women’s Federated. The claims that Eileen has made attacks against Pepper are ridiculous and even Pepper (I am told) does not see things the way Lynn made them out to be. The problem is that Bob and Lynn simply and plainly reject the idea that we can be critical of party leaders that we believe are out of touch and abuse their power. The local liberals I know are really enjoying our fight but miss the greater context. The GOP is such a “big tent” party that sometimes miscreants hell-bent on personal power can rise in opposition of what the party was founded on. Whereas everyone in the Democrat Party is self-serving, the activists in the GOP fight back against the hegemony and dictator politics of McKeon.

Democrat generalities aside, you are all doubling down, and if the McKeon’s survive this (which they probably will) you will all pay dearly when their hatchet folks take their revenge.

Good news everybody; Tim says McKeon is likely to win! If history is any indicator Buck might as well start packing now.

CG: No one would celebrate more than me if heavy handed incumbents got tossed out in a groundswell of democracy, but I am not ready to start the celebration yet. I met to really give a nod to the courage of people like Kevin Korenthal, who have been actually damaged economically by challenging the status quo. It is either the definition of courage or foolishness to run so hard against one’s own financial interests.

I would think after Ender you wouldn’t be so sure that the status was quo.

I don’t want to jinx the challengers by saying they will win.

Thanks.

Thanks Tim. I sacrifice so that others will live under better government than I had :O)

It’s really only mildly enjoyable. That this fight might mean we have Assemblyman Scott Wilk instead of Assemblywoman Patricia McKeon, it delights me, but for all I know, Scott is more conservative than Patricia (and certainly more effective). I’m sad to say that even if this fighting were twice as bad, the chance of the net result being a Democrat winning an SCV seat rather than a Republican is pretty slim. So it’s good for a chuckle, not much more. I hardly see this as any sign of a big tent. If there is an ideological component to this split, everyone has done a really good job of hiding it. This kind of nasty and personal bickering is the sort of thing you get in parties all over the world who don’t have to worry about losing at the ballot box.

To have ideology, one must have a platform. Patricia does not. She’s running on name recognition alone. I have yet to hear ONE proposed solution to any of our very obvious problems.

Pepper is a candidate for Republican Central Committee-surprised to see her name on the ballot. It’s the Hatfields vs the McCoys in that race–have to pick the Right seven.

I would love to see Lynn’s defense of these tactics. When her boy toy Bob was going around telling people that Wilk was “under investigation by the D.A.”, isn’t that bearing false witness? That’s breaking one of the Big Ten there Lynn, what do you have to say to that?

Quite a talent to make a diagnosis in five minutes! Also nice to see that when a man acts this way they are just an SOB, hard charging or opinionated, but when a lady does it they have some”mental problems.”

Does that “disturb” you Tim?

I don’t mean it as a diagnosis, but I seriously worry about her. My husband is more in tune with local politics then am I, but I read most of the things that go on. My thoughts on this matter aren’t just from 5 mins of meeting her, but a year or so of seeing her behavior, and being involved in conversations with others about some of the just plain strange behavior and comments from her. I’m not even saying she has mental problems, but chemical imbalances can make people act in extreme manners. I know because I have some close family members that have problems like this. I’m not even trying to attack Lynn here. But when I read the email chain she had with Eileen, who as my husband described her is, “the sweetest and most helpful lady. She volunteers for everything, takes other seniors to bible studies, and has never said a mean word about anyone in local politics,” I felt the need to voice my concern. I realize now this may not be the place for it, so I apologize for that.

This is EXACTLY the right place for it.

Five minutes – that’s nothing. Dr. Wellby could do it with a simple handshake.

Dr. Welby? You’re really dating yourself, Phil.

Only if he makes reference to watching the Beverly Hillbillies on their first run

I did that too. Don’t forget Gunsmoke

I Love Lucy?

With open primaries, little reason to affiliate now unless one enjoys this intramural sissy slap flights.

Beautifully stated, Eric. I’m going on 7 years as a Decline to State and see no reason to change that, especially with open primaries.

Leadershi and courage….give me a break. http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/08/obama-bails-out-of-north-carolina-visit/

Ironic that North Carolina’s constitution has never been amended until today (hence Amendment 1). Amendment 1 to the U.S. Constitution reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Our government has enforced this amendment to give rights to the disenfranchised and safeguard the people from tyranny. And in stark contrast- North Carolina’s Amendment 1 restricts the rights of fellow Americans thanks to a majority vote on the rights of a minority.

This amendment was pushed solely on the basis of one group’s religion, yet there is a fear of Shariah?

You want to know the level of tolerance for homosexuals under Shariah ???? DEATH my friend……..Unbelievable that you would attribute the passage of this law to one religion. A complete misstatement of fact…….probably intentional.

I don’t believe Jewish religious leaders signed off in support of this amendment. Nor do I think the Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist community either. This would in turn put the onus on one community. Why hide from it Petz? I agree with you on what so called Shariah laws say about it but don’t agree with the punishment laid out or many others. Why can’t you just admit that certain “values” you attribute to being American are really just religious beliefs.

The sexual orientation of the marriage license applicant is not at issue. The gender of the coapplicant is. Gay individuals can still marry and are not discriminated against by the state. Your ignorance of the First Amendment is breathtaking.

“Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death.” - George Orwell, 1984

please explain to me any reason- other than religion- for denying marriage equality. The prop8 people couldn’t.

Well, from an AP article, the only person who explained their support stated: “I’m a born-again Christian, and I just believe the Bible is clear that marriage is for one man and one woman.” It’s pretty sad when we see people asking the government to create and enforce laws based on one’s religious beliefs. Yet people worry about sharia law. I guess having the freedom not to perform or recognize gay marriages in one’s church is not enough. These beliefs must be forced on to everyone else. God bless America.

What crap. David had several wives, and it wasn’t enough for him, so he arranged to have one of his soldiers killed just so he could get with the soldier’s wife too. Polygamy, incest, and all sorts of taboo things are on full display in the bible, endorsed by god.

Your “endorsed by god” comment is not accurate. God did not condone polygamy, David’s adultery, or the murder of Urriah (Bathsheba’s husband). David was a douche. Noah was a drunk. Moses was a murderer. Gideon a coward. Peter was impulsive and brash. Paul hunted and killed Christians. Christianity doesn’t hold up any of these people as examples to follow. They are plot lines in a story. They are examples of the fallibility of humans used to show the infallibility of Christ. He is the example that the Bible holds up for its readers to follow. I know arguing religion is a dangerous thing. I personally am not one to use it as a club. I don’t really agree with making a whole segment of the population hate the Church/Bible/Jesus over the semantics of a government code. But I just think using the failings of a human (David) to argue that God is flawed somehow, is an apples to ferrari’s comparison. In other word you can’t use human inconsistencies to show God must be inconsistent. Any more then you can say an apple is red and tasty, so a red Ferrari must be tasty. They are different things altogether.

I wholeheartedly agree with Adam’s post here. I suggest you read Psalm 51 for an excellent example of why David was deemed “a man after God’s own heart.” It was his humility, not his failures that God cherished and “endorsed.” This is the reason why his story was included in the Bible.

Way to miss the point Adam and David. The woman said “I just believe the Bible is clear that marriage is for one man and one woman.” That’s not clear at all from the bible. There are multiple models presented in the bible. I couldn’t care less about David’s redemption story; the point is the bible presents multiple marriage models, including polygamy. What’s really delicious is the Book of Mormon not only mentions polygamy but says it’s the favored model. Yet the Christian and Mormon right still insist on this fantasy that marriage has always been between one man and one woman. it’s demonstrably false even in your own scriptures.

I wrote a big long thing, but just decided to say this instead. I do understand the point. The woman isn’t denying history, just stating her beliefs about marriage. Why does that make her bad? She has a right to feel that way and vote her opinion.

Isn’t it obvious why it’s bad? A majority of people are being allowed to vote on the rights of a minority of people. This seldom turns out good. If progress in civil rights in this country was dependent on women like the one quoted above, Brown v Board of Education would never have been overturned. We’re talking about fundamental rights after all. We had to fight a war amongst ourselves just to extend what the Declaration of Independence and Constitution said belonged to all men!

The Bible also got slavery wrong. There’s a reason why we ‘theoretically’ have a separation of church and state.

Learn to think for yourself petz. If we wanted to read prager I’d go to this site

This from the guy who linked to the Pro 8 donation site to intimidate them after the vote. Disappointed.

#disappoint (I still don’t get it)

you are meme-challenged

Iz only looks at cat memes!

And The Wire because I admire Omar since becoming President.

Mike, can you link me whatcha talkin bout?

http://bit.ly/vJ0v2i

M-kay….thanks

Jeff, to imply that Petz by referring to Prager is not “thinking for himself” is really pretty insulting. What is wrong with referring to and giving credit to someone who presents your views so well. As one who also looks to Prager’s views I can assure you we are not just “ditto-heads” spouting Prager. It really is that he is very articulate in presenting arguments we are aligned with.

Uhhhh, are we talking about the same Petz?

Ok Jim you’re right. Apologies to you and Petz on that count. Rough day for me. I took it out on my blog friends. Mea culpa

Thanks Jeff. This is probably one of the most divisive issues in the country right now. No surprise it gets folks worked up on this blog as well. I propose we all get together at Lucille’s when it opens. We can all get into a debate about what makes good barbecue (and drink a bit too, with designated drivers of course) and leave politics out of it. Should be a great evening.

The gist of Prager’s article is that being anti gay marriage does not make one anti gay and that gay people can be conservatives. He does not lay out any argument for opposing gay marriage. I have yet to see any argument against gay marriage that does not involve the bible or some other theory that cannot be substantiated.

Petz, I don’t get the sense that you, or many conservatives, share Prager’s view on the issue apart from his conclusion that gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry. Apart from that, he’s far more tolerant than most of his ilk. But like with almost everything I read from Prager, he’s still fighting the 60s. He is fighting a gigantic and enduring straw man that may have had some basis in reality decades ago, but doesn’t begin to hold up today. It’s all one big conspiracy to erase gender differences? By this point, at least 80% of the people I know under 40 are in favor of same-sex marriage rights and I don’t know anyone who wants to erase gender distinctions, or anything close to it. Also, I’m surprised he’s still pitching that old, and long-since debunked “teh gay is contagious” line.