Pay Parking in the SCV? Perish the thought

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

Image not recoveredpark.jpg

There can be little doubt that I’m the type of heavy-handed, know-it-all liberal that drives many of you crazy.

Case in point: I support the plastic bag ban. In fact, when I heard about the proposed bag ban, I thought it would light up the comments section of SCVTalk for days, if not weeks. And I not only relished the thought of the debate, I relished the idea of thinking about people like my dad getting outraged as they are forced to pay $.05 for a paper bag at a grocery store in the future. It’s bad. I know.

I’ve tried SCV, I really have, but I can’t help it. I believe in changing bad behavior by making it more expensive (in time or money). Consuming and throwing away single-use plastic bags is bad behavior; ergo, I support the ban.

Second case in point: SCVTalk reader Bo’s comment about parking, the hospital and automobiles:

The Council has never approved paid parking. This would set a major precedent for other projects in Santa Clarita if they do in the future.

Its actually one I would like to see. Free parking doesn’t give any incentive for people to use other modes of transportation and we will be dependent on cars forever.

This city is stuck in the 1950s mentality of planning.

Bo is exactly right. We have parking and driving entitlement issues in this town. We all complain about traffic, but traffic to us is all the other people in the cars around us, not us.

Parking is a very similar issue; we only get mad about parking when we ourselves have trouble finding a space.

But if the City were to ever try to change our behavior -to really encourage SCVers to think about alternative transportation by increasing the cost of driving and parking- there would be no end to the outrage. The Signal’s computer system would surely crash under the weight of a thousand LTEs, the Public Comments portion of the City Council meeting would be epic with hundreds of residents lined up out the door even as they fought for spaces in City Hall’s parking lot, SCVTalk would be overwhelmed, a half dozen Facebook groups would shoot up overnight and the comparisons to the SFV would be endless and intolerable.

It’d be the issue that launched a thousand -no ten thousand!- complaints.

And so we choose to remain in the place we are at now: we all want to drive alone, so we need more roads. And to visit the places we want to go, we need more surface area for temporary storage of our cars. But it’s never enough. So we complain, and we get more and more roads and more and more storage lots for our cars, but it never ends. It’s a classic supply and demand problem; demand for roads and parking is on the rise, so we increase the supply of roads and parking lots because to attack the problem on the demand side of the equation is unthinkable, painful, inconvenient and socialistic.

Pretty soon you have an SCV whose major features from the air are gigantic asphalt storage lots and meandering six lane highways because so much of our lives in this town revolve around the automobile.

Phew. That felt good. Now back to your regularly scheduled SCVTalk where I attempt to conceal my know-it-all liberalism behind a friendly non-threatening demeanor.

Comments (29)

mikeJune 3, 2010 at 10:05 am

If paid parking ever makes sense, the hospital is really the last place where it should begin. Paid parking at the hospital will not encourage public transportation as a force of habit. It’s just about the worst example of paid parking – charge confiscatory rates to a captive audience, often in their time of need and erect yet another barrier to obtaining health care. Otherwise, it’s a nonstarter. We aren’t built in a way where paid parking will make sense. There’s always a lake-sized lot across the street. We don’t have any area where there are clusters of separately owned and managed buildings with popular destinations and limited nearby parking. Malls, unless they are wildly popular and in very dense neighborhoods, do not charge for parking. Paid parking is a good idea in a lot of cities, but it’s hard to imagine any situation, apart from one-time events, where it would have its desired effect. But looking ahead, if Newhall ever becomes what they want it to be, yeah, that would make sense.

lvogelJune 3, 2010 at 10:11 am

“And to visit the places we want to go, we need more surface area for temporary storage of our cars.” I agree with you to some extent, Jeff, however I don’t think that having to go to the hospital or one of the projected new MOB’s, is necessarily a ‘place we want to go’. Do our elderly parents/grandparents who may suffer from heart conditions and have to visit their cardiolgist, want to pay to park to get care? How ’bout the cancer patients? How ’bout the resident from Canyon Country visiting their loved one who is a patient in the hospital? The PEOPLE who will be making money on the ‘pay-for-parking’ (IF there will be any) in the HMNMH area, will be the hospital and G&L…not the city. The subject of pay for parking was brought up several times during the ‘talks’ regarding the hospital/MOB’s discussions. There were conflicting statements made about whether they would charge for parking or not. It would be the decision of Seaver and/or G&L, not the city. In fact one council member asked “will you be requiring payment for parking”?. It was a question asked of Seaver, from the city council, so…

drive66June 3, 2010 at 11:07 am

I love cars

Bill ReynoldsJune 3, 2010 at 1:04 pm

Cars are cool. Pay for parking is not cool. Out!

ScottJune 3, 2010 at 11:20 am

I propose a bicyle parking fee. Just want to bring Jeff down to everyone else’s level.

ReaderMamaJune 3, 2010 at 12:43 pm

I have no problem with the bag ban. I hate the sight of plastic bags blowing down the highway. I’d be fine with a plastic bottle ban too. How on earth did we all survive for so many years without a bottle of water at our side at all times? As to paid parking, I doubt it would effect the amount of driving we do at all. Are downtown Los Angeles or downtown Glendale any less crowded. Is there any less driving going on there? No. And paid parking won’t stop all us soccer moms from dropping our obnoxious teens off at the mall. And in tough economic times such as these, small businesses would certainly be against instituting parking fees. In school they teach you that positive reinforcement is always a better way to get children to behave. At Trader Joe’s if you bring in your own shopping bags, they put your name on a ticket for a weekly drawing, which entitles the winner to $25 in free groceries. I think they have the right idea.

mikeJune 3, 2010 at 1:16 pm

Actually, downtown areas are less crowded because of paid parking. It works in areas like that and there are studies to back it up. The SCV does not have any area, at present, where it would have such an impact.

spineflower2June 3, 2010 at 5:21 pm

Yeah, but what do I pick up my dog’s poo with?

BillJune 3, 2010 at 1:15 pm

Single use plastic bags? I think most people reuse their plastic bags like I do for other things like: Lunch bags Freezer bags Dog poop disposal Trash can liner And those $.05 charges for paper bags add up when you shop almost every day like I do.

ScottJune 3, 2010 at 1:49 pm

I am lucky enough to travel to Europe often, and we go to the grocery store daily. They charge you a lot more than $.05 per bag. They actually force you to buy the reusable bags that are as much as $2-$3. I have no issues with it and we actually purchased a small, collapsable shopping cart that can easily hold everything you need in a trip to the store. You can buy them at Target for ~$30, and never have to worry about bags again.

WalkerJune 3, 2010 at 2:39 pm

I pretty exclusively use reusable bags, but still end up with a good supply of plastic bags. Do you really use *all* of the bags you bring home? I know most people use a couple and toss the majority (even my thrifty as all get out grandparents). If you do ‘light’ shopping every day, consider getting a flip and tumble reusable bag. They’re small and handy. I keep one in my purse at all times for small shopping trips (though I prefer a different style bag for my grocery shopping….but I’m not shopping daily.)

BrianJune 3, 2010 at 3:05 pm

The waste happens when the overpackaged item we just purchased gets put into a bag. WHY? What’s the point in putting one (bottle of shampoo for example), in a bag. The checkout clerks really need to ask not if we want paper or plastic, but if we want a bag at all!

Fred ButlerJune 3, 2010 at 7:10 pm

The premise stated here that plastic bag use is bad behavior is faulty. It equates such use with ethics and morality, when a plastic bag is a non-entity that can’t inflict any moral behavior one way or another. We use our plastic bags multiple times as well. The bag ban is just a scam to suck more money out of people, and to assign some ethical value to the bag and the bag user is irrational.

BrianJune 3, 2010 at 2:14 pm

Just watch the fat bods trolling for the parking spaces right on top of any store (cough, Wal Mart)! If the first 20 spots in the closest aisles to the store were metered, it might make a difference.

navigatorJune 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm

Plastic bags and paper bags are both good for reuse. We have 1 cabinet shelf dedicated to them. If I buy 1 item I tell them to keep the bag. Paid parking at the hospital or doctor’s office sucks cuz I’m stuck there. It’s fine at the mall cuz I can go elsewhere. Face it Jeff, not all o us care to peddle our butts around town. I didn’t err in spelling.

lvogelJune 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm

I use my own bags and have bought quite a variety. It’s kinda fun to go into Vons with my Ralphs bag, or better yet get my Costco bag overfilled (they’re REALLY BIG) so much that I can’t carry it! I use the plastic bags when I walk with my dog. I will take one along to pick up trash I might come across. Couple of weeks ago I could have used an extra one! I like your idea Scott about the collapsable cart. Often I don’t even put my fruit and veges in the bags in the produce section. Cashiers don’t particularly like it cause they’re not all together and easily weighed, but oh well.

IHeartSCVJune 3, 2010 at 4:46 pm

“I believe in changing bad behavior by making it more expensive (in time or money).” Sigh. I’ve never been big on sin taxes–the government does not exist to “improve” our behavior but to protect our freedom. Furthermore, charging for parking could lead to all kinds of trouble if it actually got people to change their behavior (e.g., if everyone switched to public transportation, Santa Clarita would be screwed since car sales subsidize transit). I would be OK with getting rid of all preferential treatment that oil companies receive from the gov’t, though.

Bill ReynoldsJune 3, 2010 at 5:10 pm

If Master Jeff had children he would also have an SUV and he would have a home with a yard and a swing set. Instead, he lives in a crummy Newhall high density condo complex, rides his little bicycle to his state job and thinks he’s got it together by preaching liberalism. Hah! No offense Master Jeff. Ha-ha!

Jim FarleyJune 3, 2010 at 9:26 pm

“The government does not exist to “improve” our behavior but to protect our freedom.” Well well said Iheart!

spineflower2June 3, 2010 at 5:22 pm

Designing a community around the automobile, then punishing residents with costs for using the automobile, is a classic bait and switch or setup racket. No pay parking in the SCV!

Samuel AdamsJune 3, 2010 at 7:41 pm

Where I grew up in the midwest, every city had a yearly vehicle license tax (on top of DMV fees). You had to put a sticker in your window every year. Stupid and so are parking meters in Santa Clarita. Maybe the city should stop spending so much on marketing/promotion and save some taxpayer money for when they really need it.

CCJune 3, 2010 at 7:59 pm

There should be a tax on BBQ, because, let’s face it, it isn’t good for the health. Oh yeah, and a tax on all food that you don’t raise in your backyard. And a tax on water usage for your farm. And a tax on sofas and TVs, and on and on and on and on and on. As for paid parking for the hospital, I guess I better get granny off her ass and get her to strap her walker to her back so that she can bike to the hospital for that cat scan. Yes Jeff, you are an unapologetically real Liberal, and a great example of why Liberals don’t get respect.

TimBen BoydstonJune 3, 2010 at 9:16 pm

I am not a liberal and when I was on the City Council I proposed a ban for our City on plastic bags. Why? 1)They are so lightweight that they blow into the canyons, ocean,critters digestive systems etc. where the real costs for their clean-up is not counted and is not recovered. 2)Paper is a great alternative which worked well for many years. 3)Reusable is a great alternative also. 4)Paper is very biodegradable…plastic not so much. I am not sure we need to charge for the paper bags. I received zero support from the Council on that one.

ScottEJune 4, 2010 at 7:21 am

“There can be little doubt that I’m the type of heavy-handed, know-it-all liberal that drives many of you crazy. Case in point: I support the plastic bag ban.” Kind of takes the sting out of sophomoric comments like: ” . .and thinks he’s got it together by preaching liberalism.” (and especially the really sophomoric stuff that came before it)

Bill ReynoldsJune 4, 2010 at 11:09 am

There can be little doubt that liberalism eats brain cells.

mikeJune 4, 2010 at 11:20 am

Bill, all this time I thought we’ve been negotiating in good faith a resolution, but you have caused even more angst.

Bill ReynoldsJune 6, 2010 at 12:08 pm

Ahh, but now we know that all this time liberalism has been eating your brain cells.

Alan FerdmanJune 4, 2010 at 11:59 am

I find a ban on plastic bags comical. Jeff, you are just not old enough to remember when plastic bags replaced paper bags as a way to save trees. Now, we will get to pay more at the store and sacrifice trees anyway. Another example of going back to the future, because, we do not remember the past.

BrianJune 5, 2010 at 1:31 pm

Trees to make paper thanks to the timber industry. Hemp is an ecologically better alternative. Back to the future indeed!

mikeJune 3, 2010 at 10:05 am
If paid parking ever makes sense, the hospital is really the last place where it should begin. Paid parking at the hospital will not encourage public transportation as a force of habit. It’s just about the worst example of paid parking – charge confiscatory rates to a captive audience, often in their time of need and erect yet another barrier to obtaining health care. Otherwise, it’s a nonstarter. We aren’t built in a way where paid parking will make sense. There’s always a lake-sized lot across the street. We don’t have any area where there are clusters of separately owned and managed buildings with popular destinations and limited nearby parking. Malls, unless they are wildly popular and in very dense neighborhoods, do not charge for parking. Paid parking is a good idea in a lot of cities, but it’s hard to imagine any situation, apart from one-time events, where it would have its desired effect. But looking ahead, if Newhall ever becomes what they want it to be, yeah, that would make sense.
lvogelJune 3, 2010 at 10:11 am
“And to visit the places we want to go, we need more surface area for temporary storage of our cars.” I agree with you to some extent, Jeff, however I don’t think that having to go to the hospital or one of the projected new MOB’s, is necessarily a ‘place we want to go’. Do our elderly parents/grandparents who may suffer from heart conditions and have to visit their cardiolgist, want to pay to park to get care? How ’bout the cancer patients? How ’bout the resident from Canyon Country visiting their loved one who is a patient in the hospital? The PEOPLE who will be making money on the ‘pay-for-parking’ (IF there will be any) in the HMNMH area, will be the hospital and G&L…not the city. The subject of pay for parking was brought up several times during the ‘talks’ regarding the hospital/MOB’s discussions. There were conflicting statements made about whether they would charge for parking or not. It would be the decision of Seaver and/or G&L, not the city. In fact one council member asked “will you be requiring payment for parking”?. It was a question asked of Seaver, from the city council, so…
drive66June 3, 2010 at 11:07 am
I love cars
Bill ReynoldsJune 3, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Cars are cool. Pay for parking is not cool. Out!
ScottJune 3, 2010 at 11:20 am
I propose a bicyle parking fee. Just want to bring Jeff down to everyone else’s level.
ReaderMamaJune 3, 2010 at 12:43 pm
I have no problem with the bag ban. I hate the sight of plastic bags blowing down the highway. I’d be fine with a plastic bottle ban too. How on earth did we all survive for so many years without a bottle of water at our side at all times? As to paid parking, I doubt it would effect the amount of driving we do at all. Are downtown Los Angeles or downtown Glendale any less crowded. Is there any less driving going on there? No. And paid parking won’t stop all us soccer moms from dropping our obnoxious teens off at the mall. And in tough economic times such as these, small businesses would certainly be against instituting parking fees. In school they teach you that positive reinforcement is always a better way to get children to behave. At Trader Joe’s if you bring in your own shopping bags, they put your name on a ticket for a weekly drawing, which entitles the winner to $25 in free groceries. I think they have the right idea.
mikeJune 3, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Actually, downtown areas are less crowded because of paid parking. It works in areas like that and there are studies to back it up. The SCV does not have any area, at present, where it would have such an impact.
spineflower2June 3, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Yeah, but what do I pick up my dog’s poo with?
BillJune 3, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Single use plastic bags? I think most people reuse their plastic bags like I do for other things like: Lunch bags Freezer bags Dog poop disposal Trash can liner And those $.05 charges for paper bags add up when you shop almost every day like I do.
ScottJune 3, 2010 at 1:49 pm
I am lucky enough to travel to Europe often, and we go to the grocery store daily. They charge you a lot more than $.05 per bag. They actually force you to buy the reusable bags that are as much as $2-$3. I have no issues with it and we actually purchased a small, collapsable shopping cart that can easily hold everything you need in a trip to the store. You can buy them at Target for ~$30, and never have to worry about bags again.
WalkerJune 3, 2010 at 2:39 pm
I pretty exclusively use reusable bags, but still end up with a good supply of plastic bags. Do you really use *all* of the bags you bring home? I know most people use a couple and toss the majority (even my thrifty as all get out grandparents). If you do ‘light’ shopping every day, consider getting a flip and tumble reusable bag. They’re small and handy. I keep one in my purse at all times for small shopping trips (though I prefer a different style bag for my grocery shopping….but I’m not shopping daily.)
BrianJune 3, 2010 at 3:05 pm
The waste happens when the overpackaged item we just purchased gets put into a bag. WHY? What’s the point in putting one (bottle of shampoo for example), in a bag. The checkout clerks really need to ask not if we want paper or plastic, but if we want a bag at all!
Fred ButlerJune 3, 2010 at 7:10 pm
The premise stated here that plastic bag use is bad behavior is faulty. It equates such use with ethics and morality, when a plastic bag is a non-entity that can’t inflict any moral behavior one way or another. We use our plastic bags multiple times as well. The bag ban is just a scam to suck more money out of people, and to assign some ethical value to the bag and the bag user is irrational.
BrianJune 3, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Just watch the fat bods trolling for the parking spaces right on top of any store (cough, Wal Mart)! If the first 20 spots in the closest aisles to the store were metered, it might make a difference.
navigatorJune 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Plastic bags and paper bags are both good for reuse. We have 1 cabinet shelf dedicated to them. If I buy 1 item I tell them to keep the bag. Paid parking at the hospital or doctor’s office sucks cuz I’m stuck there. It’s fine at the mall cuz I can go elsewhere. Face it Jeff, not all o us care to peddle our butts around town. I didn’t err in spelling.
lvogelJune 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm
I use my own bags and have bought quite a variety. It’s kinda fun to go into Vons with my Ralphs bag, or better yet get my Costco bag overfilled (they’re REALLY BIG) so much that I can’t carry it! I use the plastic bags when I walk with my dog. I will take one along to pick up trash I might come across. Couple of weeks ago I could have used an extra one! I like your idea Scott about the collapsable cart. Often I don’t even put my fruit and veges in the bags in the produce section. Cashiers don’t particularly like it cause they’re not all together and easily weighed, but oh well.
IHeartSCVJune 3, 2010 at 4:46 pm
“I believe in changing bad behavior by making it more expensive (in time or money).” Sigh. I’ve never been big on sin taxes–the government does not exist to “improve” our behavior but to protect our freedom. Furthermore, charging for parking could lead to all kinds of trouble if it actually got people to change their behavior (e.g., if everyone switched to public transportation, Santa Clarita would be screwed since car sales subsidize transit). I would be OK with getting rid of all preferential treatment that oil companies receive from the gov’t, though.
Bill ReynoldsJune 3, 2010 at 5:10 pm
If Master Jeff had children he would also have an SUV and he would have a home with a yard and a swing set. Instead, he lives in a crummy Newhall high density condo complex, rides his little bicycle to his state job and thinks he’s got it together by preaching liberalism. Hah! No offense Master Jeff. Ha-ha!
Jim FarleyJune 3, 2010 at 9:26 pm
“The government does not exist to “improve” our behavior but to protect our freedom.” Well well said Iheart!
spineflower2June 3, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Designing a community around the automobile, then punishing residents with costs for using the automobile, is a classic bait and switch or setup racket. No pay parking in the SCV!
Samuel AdamsJune 3, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Where I grew up in the midwest, every city had a yearly vehicle license tax (on top of DMV fees). You had to put a sticker in your window every year. Stupid and so are parking meters in Santa Clarita. Maybe the city should stop spending so much on marketing/promotion and save some taxpayer money for when they really need it.
CCJune 3, 2010 at 7:59 pm
There should be a tax on BBQ, because, let’s face it, it isn’t good for the health. Oh yeah, and a tax on all food that you don’t raise in your backyard. And a tax on water usage for your farm. And a tax on sofas and TVs, and on and on and on and on and on. As for paid parking for the hospital, I guess I better get granny off her ass and get her to strap her walker to her back so that she can bike to the hospital for that cat scan. Yes Jeff, you are an unapologetically real Liberal, and a great example of why Liberals don’t get respect.
TimBen BoydstonJune 3, 2010 at 9:16 pm
I am not a liberal and when I was on the City Council I proposed a ban for our City on plastic bags. Why? 1)They are so lightweight that they blow into the canyons, ocean,critters digestive systems etc. where the real costs for their clean-up is not counted and is not recovered. 2)Paper is a great alternative which worked well for many years. 3)Reusable is a great alternative also. 4)Paper is very biodegradable…plastic not so much. I am not sure we need to charge for the paper bags. I received zero support from the Council on that one.
ScottEJune 4, 2010 at 7:21 am
“There can be little doubt that I’m the type of heavy-handed, know-it-all liberal that drives many of you crazy. Case in point: I support the plastic bag ban.” Kind of takes the sting out of sophomoric comments like: ” . .and thinks he’s got it together by preaching liberalism.” (and especially the really sophomoric stuff that came before it)
Bill ReynoldsJune 4, 2010 at 11:09 am
There can be little doubt that liberalism eats brain cells.
mikeJune 4, 2010 at 11:20 am
Bill, all this time I thought we’ve been negotiating in good faith a resolution, but you have caused even more angst.
Bill ReynoldsJune 6, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Ahh, but now we know that all this time liberalism has been eating your brain cells.
Alan FerdmanJune 4, 2010 at 11:59 am
I find a ban on plastic bags comical. Jeff, you are just not old enough to remember when plastic bags replaced paper bags as a way to save trees. Now, we will get to pay more at the store and sacrifice trees anyway. Another example of going back to the future, because, we do not remember the past.
BrianJune 5, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Trees to make paper thanks to the timber industry. Hemp is an ecologically better alternative. Back to the future indeed!