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April 25, 2011· scvtalk.com · WordPress (SCVTalk 3.0) · Wayback capture

On City Council Districts

So Myers says there’s an organized effort afoot to bring big-city style Council Districts to our community:

It appears that SOL leadership decided that bringing districts to the mix would somehow damage the seeming invincibility of incumbents.

To bring electoral districts to Santa Clarita would require a citizen referendum that would require about 15,000 signatures, or about 80 percent of the total actual voting pool in the 2010 election. In addition to this seemingly insurmountable task, any referendum would need to reverse the referendum that formed the current system that passed by nearly two-thirds in 1987.

Myers may be a perpetually negative Nelly and would like to downplay what this means (and he may be right) but I want to toss the idea around a little bit.

Say SOL was successful and ultimately, Santa Clarita was divided up into districts with or without an elected mayor position. Perhaps five, or seven or even nine different voting districts. How would the City work then? How would our views of the City change?

Well -regardless of who got elected- I predict almost immediately you’d see some of the efficiencies we have in local government end. You’d no longer see the City acting quickly to resolve problems, enhance services, or build new infrastructure. A new Newhall Community Center, conceived of and executed within a 2 or 3 year period? Gone. A unified City Council + Staff pushing relentlessly to fund a Cross Valley Connector-style road that serves the entire Santa Clarita Valley? Gone, or severely degraded. On these and many other issues, you’d probably see a divided City Council because, guess what? What’s good for the SCV may not be good for one member’s individual district, and vice versa. And district based Councilmembers can be expected to do what voters in their district want them to do, which may be at odds with what’s best for the entire community.

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But that, in a way, would solve another problem we have with our City: mistrust and dogged opposition by community groups that feel no one represents them and their interests at City Hall. By giving each district their own Councilmember, we’d gunk up the work of local government, but we’d have a more democratic local government. For example, residents of the McBean neighborhoods concerned about Mayo expansion would have a real voice at City Hall who was looking out for their interests alone (traffic and aesthetics), not the entire valley’s interests (healthcare delivery and accessibility). A Latino councilmember representing east Newhall might not be so enthused about aggressively building a Cross Valley Connector for the north valley when constituents in her district have to walk through mud and dirt because there’s no sidewalks on Newhall Avenue.

All those coalition groups that pop up in the news now and then, like the old Calgrove Coalition (formed to fight the Avenues project) or the neighbors who argued relentlessly (and to no avail) for the City to shut off Benz Road would truly have an advocate at City Hall, someone who could cut deals with other Councilmembers in exchange for votes. They too, would feel more represented at City Hall.

So it breaks down like that. Under a District Council system, the City of Santa Clarita would become much less focused on big-picture items like the CVC or the stupid Whitaker-Bermite development deal. It’d become much less efficient in carrying out tasks that require valley-wide planning and coordination. Our Councilmembers, in contrast, would become much more selfish, spending most of their time trying to keep voters in their Districts happy rather than thinking of the City as a whole. But that would mean the City would be, as a whole, more representative of its population, more democratic.

That’s the paradox of districting and it’s as old as American representative democracy itself.

On City Council Districts

Comments (20)

  1. Timothy Myers SR.April 25, 2011 at 10:38 am
    I don’t like being negative, but I do like being right!
  2. JeffApril 25, 2011 at 10:38 am
    Oh don’t fib. You love kicking sand in every hopeful idealist’s eyes.
  3. Alan FerdmanApril 25, 2011 at 11:03 am
    I have to chuckle over this discussion because it is all about change and our natural resistance to it. All of the arguments about leaving things the same are the identical arguments about “local vs. more centralized control” which were debated when Santa Clarita became a city. But I have to say this. Your example of the Community Center in Newhall brings out an excellent issue. The Newhall Community Center is a terrific asset for Newhall and surrounding communities. One would think that the city would want to build on that success across the city. Well, it has been over two years since Rick Gould came to the CCAC and informed Canyon Country Residents about the city plan to find a location for a Community Center in Canyon Country. The cost for the city to find a Canyon Country location, $20,000. Two months later Pulskamp cancelled the plan for lack of money. Did we hear anyone on the council scream and reverse that decision? You know the answer. The point is this, if you think the City of Santa Clarita is functioning perfectly, leave well enough alone, but if you think there is room for improvement, something has to change.
  4. Coastal SageApril 25, 2011 at 8:29 pm
    Alan, don’t you understand it’s Ken’s money, and he does what he wants with it? Here today and gone tomorrow, if the whim strikes him. I suspect that even the Council members don’t know how much unallocated cash the City has lying around, from one day to the next.
  5. Alan FerdmanApril 26, 2011 at 10:16 am
    Coastal Sage That is probably very accurate. We wanted to follow the budget process this year. Point of interest, the April 26 Budget Subcommittee has been moved to May 2 just one day before the Joint Council/Commission budget meeting. Can’t wait to see the level of detail or lack thereof.
  6. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 11:28 am
    Jeff I do not believe any elected body behaves in the best interests of the constituents when a council member or whoever relies exclusively on the views of a handful of people whom loudly complain and advocate for their interest without regard for how decisions impact the rest of us. You cite the Benz Road issue as an example but you did not explain how that example worked or failed to work. Let me fill in some blanks. A person from Saugus named Tony complains about traffic on Benz Road. The Saugus Action committee does not take on his cause, so he goes to Al Ferdman in Canyon Country who embraces it since it is another opportunity to make points against the city, he thinks. Al goes before the Council repeatedly supposedly representing that Canyon Country agrees with him and the few folks from Saugus complaining. He never asked us or took a vote as our By-Laws specified before adopting and voicing HIS position. Al apparently did not speak to other affected area residents either. Oh, and Tony from SAUGUS is now a “Board member” of the Canyon Country Advisory Committee! The Council, based on these “complaints”, tries to help, installs speed bumps and other traffic calming measures. Fast forward a couple of years, their efforts have cost taxpayers money and failed to please the OTHER residents so a whole bunch of folks show up before council to say they don’t want the speed bumps etc and yell at the council for having listened to those few others who complained loudest before. Nearly the same identical scenario played out regarding Canvas/Linda Vista streets in Canyon Country except the Council found out in time and did not act to gate off the streets as requested by a handful of loud “activists”. We as city residents are much better off when the entire city’s needs are considered and evaluated by those elected to represent all of us, not just the select complainers. If we had elected district representative Council Members, we would simply have wars on who gets the homeless shelter, the MURF, new shopping, new hospital, improvements, etc. NO THANKS, we have enough division without that. An at large elected council has to work for all of us. I prefer it that way than carving up districts and pitting communities against each other for services or having only one person listen to your issues. In my opinion, under a District Council system, we would be much more susceptible to divisiveness, cronyism and pay back than under our current at large system. SOL is sol, unless of course they use the same 10,400 falsely obtained signatures and add a few more to their lists. I have to disagree with your comment “…or the stupid Whittaker-Bermite development deal.” First of all, there is no deal as of now. The Whittaker-Bermite property is a challenging issue with great potential, if all of the appropriate safeguards can be guaranteed so that the City and we the taxpayers do not take on the liability for cleaning up the site if partners and we were to purchase the remaining mortgage note.
  7. NFICApril 25, 2011 at 11:49 am
    Berta: I think your a bit mistaken – Do you think that we don’t have divisiveness, cronyism and payback now? What do you think Marsha McLean not supporting Diane Trautman for Planning commissioner was? Why do you think the City pulled advertising from KHTS after they endorsed David Gauney? As far as the loud complainers, they have to be loud because the City would rather stick their head in the sand than deal with some of the issues that get created by the unbridled growth in this community. While having districts may distract from the overall good of the city, it would sure create a bit more equality o0f treatment among the various areas of town.
  8. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 12:38 pm
    NFIC I will not argue whether there is or is not currently cronyism, payback etc. I will continue to argue that those issues and other negative problems associated with putting the power of any one area exclusively in the hands of any one person is problematic and leads to greater issues of cronyism, favoritism, etc. For example, I know you are an Al and TBB aficionado so you would be fine with either on the Council representing Canyon Country. Yes, I know TBB is technically in Newhall but we all accepted his tract as Canyon Country when we formed the CCAC anyway. Since neither person is my friend, I on the other hand would most likely not receive a fair hearing of my issues if they were exclusively representing me as a Canyon Country Councilmember. The Bonelli tract issue is a great example of that. They certainly have not represented my views on most issues up until now, nor have they factored in my concerns on pretty much anything either. With five council members, I have at least five sets of ears to listen to others and me who share my concerns or views. If Bob Kellar from Canyon Country does not want to listen to my concerns (which I know Bob would allow a fair hearing), I have four others to speak with. During the period from founding in 1998 to a few years ago that the CCAC was working in partnership with the city and others to improve the Canyon Country area, we accomplished many improvements that did not negatively affect other areas or our neighbors. Once Al decided to include the entire valley in his snipes against the City, no longer wanted to hear any other views but his (favoritism), brought into the fold all the other complainers from all over the SCV (cronyism) and pushed out anyone not in agreement with his agenda (payback), and stopped working constructively with all of the partners (politicized perceived power), the CCAC lost effectiveness and credibility. There you have a perfect example of the problems in placing control and power to represent an area in the hands of just one individual (Al King of Canyon Country) without regard to how those policies and decisions affect the rest of us.
  9. Alan FerdmanApril 25, 2011 at 12:07 pm
    Ms. Gonzalez’s superficial understanding of these issues do not warrant a response. But I will emphatically state; Anyone who lives, works or owns property in the Santa Clarita Valley is welcome to attend and participate in Canyon County Advisory Committee activities. Our membership and Board of Directors include numerous members who reside in areas other than Canyon Country. We appreciate and welcome them all. Alan Ferdman Chair, Canyon Country Advisory Committee
  10. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 12:40 pm
    Al, unless they disagree with you. Then you try to discredit them by spreading falsehoods, make sure they are not invited to “invitation only” meetings held at undisclosed locations to keep out any dissenting opinions, and are certainly excluded from your self-appointed “Board”. Oh, and let us not forget you ignored the approved By-Laws and created new ones as yet unapproved so that your “Board” can censure or expulse anyone you do not want on the CCAC. Anyone want to take bets on who will be the first and only person censured and expulsed from a group which I helped found before Al was even involved?
  11. JerryApril 25, 2011 at 1:21 pm
    BGH First good idea you’ve had. You deserve to get the boot. You’re twisted logic and personal vendetta are pure BS and add nothing to the discussion. I think you enjoy making yourself look like an idiot.
  12. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 1:34 pm
    Jerry, right on cue…
  13. JerryApril 25, 2011 at 3:11 pm
    BGH You betcha, I am right on cue. Every time you act like an idiot, I will be right here to point it out. Al and the CCAC does a lot of good stuff for our community . All you do is rant and type BS on a blog.
  14. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    Jerry, calling me names does not change the veracity of the information I share. You can attack the messenger but the message remains. The CCAC in years past did in fact provide a valuable service to the Canyon Country community, long before you joined us. That value was diminished and finally lost once it become a vehicle for one person’s anti city agenda, and an atmosphere encouraging of folks like you with disrespectful attitudes to those with a different opinion. I actually feel sorry for you…
  15. spineflower2April 25, 2011 at 12:39 pm
    Let’s take this to it’s Hitlerian extreme and go for the most efficient, “big-picture” government, and get rid of all this pesky democracy that keeps interfering with Those Who Know What’s Best For Us. A single appointed officeholder who really runs things. (You know, sort of like the City Manager was made to be?) Do you have some evidence that the present point on the democracy/totalitarianism scale is somehow the ideal ? Or is this merely a baseless plea to maintain the present cronyistic status quo? The City’s own argument for annexation of County communities has been more local representation . But when applied to the City itself , this argument somehow gets thrown out. Self-serving hypocrisy, nothing more.
  16. JerryApril 25, 2011 at 4:50 pm
    BGH You are comical. Of course, no group would be of any value unless you said so and everyone who does not agree with you has a “disrespectful attitude”. The CCAC is not anti-anything. The information coming out is accurate and useful. When the city does good or bad, so be it. The chips should fall where they may. The only person with an anti-anything agenda is you. If you want to feel sorry for someone try feeling sorry for yourself.
  17. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 5:43 pm
    Jerry, unlike you, I believe that even when you are wrong about me or anything else, you have a right to express your opinion, I would not suggest otherwise. You apparently feel differently. I do disagree with just about everything you say and I am grateful that is the case. That you prefer to receive information filtered through another’s agenda and accept that as fact is your choice. I personally prefer balanced presentations and multiple credible sources of information so that I can evaluate and weigh the pros and cons and formulate my own opinion based on all of the information at my disposal. All of the regular readers are well aware that you only surface to slam me and defend Al. This is one of those instances where Al is better off without your “help”, but by all means carry on. I personally have every confidence in the ability of scvtalk readers to discern the basis of your animus and your motives. Fortunately, you and Al do not control content on this blog so I do not need your approval or permission to share my information or comments.
  18. JerryApril 25, 2011 at 6:17 pm
    BGH If you did half of what you say you do, you would be far more believable. Maybe we do not want to get information filtered through you. But in the case of SCVTalk readers, you are right. They do see you for what you are and what you do. It is never ending “last word” Bertagrams about how good you are and how no one else respects you. For me, I do defend the CCAC. It is a good group of people trying to do the right thing and they deserve better than your fact less accusations If you really felt the way you say you do, you would not be showing up every month at the CCAC listening and taking notes.
  19. BertaApril 25, 2011 at 10:22 pm
    Jerry I do not give presentations before the CCAC so I do not see how you would receive any information filtered through me. As far as reading my comments here, you and everyone else have the option of skipping them. I also do not recall saying how good I am or that no one respects me. Those who think I am a good person certainly do not need me to tell them so. Those who think otherwise such as you, also do not need my input to formulate an opinion. I have stated that you and others do not respect my right to express my opinion and I believe you have confirmed that on multiple occasions on this very blog. I show up every month at CCAC meetings and take notes precisely because it is my community too and I chose to listen to all sides of the issues, even those I do not agree with. I realize the environment at CCAC meetings is hostile. I cannot do anything about that. You will have to get your new By-Laws approved and expulse me because I am not voluntarily leaving. In any event, I will remain involved in my community. Taking notes at meetings is necessary since the “minutes” are not very informative, I do not see them at all until a month later at the next meeting for approval, and they do not reflect Al’s or anyone else’s comments, questions, etc. none of which make it to the YouTube videos either. For instance, under my one minute for public participation the minutes usually reflect something like “Ms. Gonzales (sic) expressed concerns regarding the By-Laws”. All of my other comments or questions throughout are never referenced anywhere. Instead of speculating on what might have been said, I refer to my notes. I am sure the rest of these folks are bored with this “conversation” Jerry so I will leave it at that. This is my last word Bertagram for this evening.
  20. Coastal SageApril 25, 2011 at 8:23 pm
    “residents of the McBean neighborhoods concerned about Mayo expansion would have a real voice at City Hall ” Fatal assumption in discussing “Council Districts”. I lived in the City of L.A., which followed a principle that “the Councilman is king in his own district”. As a constituent of the late Ernani Bernardi, in the Valley, I was called a “Jew lawyer from Beverly Hills” by Councilman Bernardi, when I spoke out against a laundry list of stupid things he voted for which made our neighborhood unliveable. It turned out, in my opinion, that Councilman Bernardi was bought and paid for by people not worth mentioning here. Then there was the esteemed Councilman Yaroslavsky, who sold out his Sherman Oaks constituents who wanted height restrictions on Ventura Blvd buildings. “Zev” favored the developers on that one. And then there was my first land use case, as a first year lawyer, when I was standing on L.A. City Hall’s steps with my boss and Councilman X. We were there for a public hearing on a strictly “local” issue (demolition of an architecturally lovely apartment building so condos could be built). A famous and now dead “Civil Engineer” who was one of L.A.’s most famous developer lobbyists approached and joined the conversation. A few minutes later my boss whispered in my ear “Turn around so you can’t see the Councilman”. I thought something weird was happening down on the street at City Hall, so I turned around. Later, I learned from my boss that an envelope was passed to the Councilman by the Civil Engineer. I never did learn what was in that envelope, but surprise, surprise the Councilman voted against the wishes of his vocal constituents who were in attendance. L.A. city’s districted council members working for their constituents, rather than the interest of unions and the monied classes, has a very checkered history, to say the least. In my humble opinion, creation of councilmanic districts in Santa Clarita would simply cause well funded “puppets” to be elected in each district. The bottom line is that regardless of whether a city has “council districts” or “council members at large” outsider money makes big campaign contributions, outsider money fuels the victors’ election campaigns and the threat of withholding campaign contributions for re-election campaigns allows the big PAC contributors to call the shots.

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