SCV Talk · Archive
Nine years of the Valley’s town square · 2006–2015
SCV Talk
May 3, 2011· scvtalk.com · WordPress (SCVTalk 3.0) · Wayback capture

High Speed Rail authority taking second look at Grapevine, possible SCV Station

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

It looks like Sand Canyon NIMBYism might pay off for the SCV in a big way: The California High Speed Rail authority may take a second look at routing the HSR train system over the SCV’s Grapevine, rather than up Soledad Canyon and into the Antelope valley according to the Fresno Business Journal and an HSR meeting agenda.

If the authority were to change the route, they would not build an HSR station in Palmdale and could, instead, build one in Santa Clarita.

A Grapevine route for the HSR would be:

  • 25 miles shorter and 10 minutes faster than routing the train up Antelope Valley/Tehachapi way
  • May result in billions of savings over the AV/Soledad route, which requires a lot of tunneling and impact on endangered species
  • “Could allow a HST Station location in Santa Clarita, resulting in direct access into the existing San Fernando Valley ROW corridor at the north.” (Whoohooo!)

The report by the HSR staff recommends that the authority conduct a new study of the Grapevine route to see if it is feasible.

Earlier the Grapevine route was dismissed because of seismic concerns, but I guess after looking at what it would take to tunnel a train through much of the eastern SCV, they’ve decided the Graepvine, as steep and rugged as it is, is worth a second look.

Fascinating geeky train stuff, I’ll grant you, but a high speed rail station in the SCV would be the biggest thing to hit our town since I-5 was built. The possibility of an HSR station here would likely melt away opposition from all but the most fierce SCV naysayers and would be a huge economic boon to our valley. I’m almost certain the City Council would back this alignment and all the negative impacts of construction if the HSR system came with an SCV station.

HSR AGENDA

FRESNO BUSINESS JOURNAL REPORT

SAND CANYON RESIDENTS UPSET OVER HSR

Comments (43)

  1. BertaMay 3, 2011 at 11:47 am
    Jeff doing a feasibility study of the I-5 corridor was mentioned many times by my break out-group at the High Speed Rail workshop held last evening at the Sports Complex and not just by Sand canyon residents either.
  2. JeffMay 3, 2011 at 11:49 am
    That’s great and all, and I’m glad you did, but now it’s official. So good job! And yes I will still dig on Sand Canyon.
  3. lstaedtlerMay 3, 2011 at 12:51 pm
    This will just shift the NIMBYism over to the west side of the Valley. I heard that the Grapevine will still require more tunneling than the 14 alignment and that there are more seismic concerns on the Grapevine route (they have to actually cross the San Andreas fault). However, when both routes were first considered, the 14 alignment was perceived as a significant cost savings and less impact. Now with the additional tunneling costs and impacts on 14 side, its worth looking at the 5 corridor again. HSR Authority’ s vote this week as I understand is just for a conceptual study to see if it is feasible which wasnt done earlier. It still wont get as detailed as the work already done on the 14 side unless the board votes after the conceptual study to move forward.
  4. CastaicClayMay 3, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    And by going through the AV the HSR somehow misses the San Andreas Fault? How?
  5. lstaedtlerMay 3, 2011 at 3:42 pm
    Ooops. I thought I took out that statement before I submitted the comment. From what I understand there are still more seismic concerns on the Grapevine alignment than the Antelope Valley alignment.
  6. ToddMay 3, 2011 at 4:58 pm
    HSR going over grapevine would cross the San Andreas below grade, as it tunnels through the mountains down to the Central Valley Floor. From what I understood, the San Andreas crossing in the AV was at grade, aka ground level.
  7. Coastal SageMay 3, 2011 at 11:43 pm
    The “Antelope Valley” route also crosses the Garlock Fault, which is the “transverse fault” for the San Andreas. Just as dangerous, and far more active. On top of that the “Antelope Valley” route crosses the White Wolf Fault, which caused the 2nd biggest earthquake in California history, flattening Bakersfield and Tehachapi in days of old. The reality of the “Antelope Valley” route is that is was originally designated to win some votes from state legislators from that area, but the money isn’t there to build the tunnels and bridges, and more important do the land-buy condemnations which that route requires. Remember the risk of land -buy condemnation. The City of Santa Clarita thought it could condemn a few acres to build Golden Valley Road, and pay less than $1 Million. When the jury heard the case, they awarded $13 Million and then the judge tacked on an additional $9 Million in condemned-property-owner’s attorney’s fees and interest. Any private person whose property is taken, in whole or in part, to build this high speed railway has the right to a jury trial. The trials would have to be in Bakersfield and Lancaster, and trust me the property owners would LOVE to tell friendly jurors-and-neighbors how the state screwed up their lives. Santa Clarita’s taxpayers tried the “don’t punish the taxpayers” ploy at the Golden Valley Road condemnation trial, and the jury sitting outside of Santa Clarita had no sympathy for the public purse, because they were portrayed as “greedy politicians”. And, by the way, the Golden Valley Road Condemnation trial was in L.A. County, not in Phoenix as the city would have you believe. If rational minds prevail (which is always a big question in dealing with public agencies of the State of California) the HSR Authority will pick the Grapevine route to avoid the massive cost risk presented by right-of-way condemnations of private property, constituting the part of the route from Bealville to the place where the 5 Freeway right-of-way goes flat somewhere in Santa Clarita.
  8. PetzMay 3, 2011 at 2:34 pm
    Very discouraging to hear about Obama dithering about the decision to take Osama down. The only ones who can shoot straight are the Navy Seals. This administration is not capable of telling the truth and then people wonder why we wanted to see the documentation.
  9. JeffMay 3, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    I assume you’re referring to the Drudge headline that he slept on the decision over a period of 16 hours? I’m glad he took his time. It was a very risky mission. Ultimately he would have been responsible if all those men died, or if Pakistan intercepted them, or they were taken prisoner.
  10. Bill ReynoldsMay 3, 2011 at 3:18 pm
    I suppose releasing OBL’s death photo is also a risky decision, eh? BHO has a strong track record of dithering when making decisions and often he changes his mind anyway. The guy can’t even attend campaign events on time…
  11. ToddMay 3, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    And this has WHAT to do with the topic? Oh right, any excuse for Petz to ramble…
  12. Coastal SageMay 3, 2011 at 11:50 pm
    Hey Jeff, didn’t your hear? Obama had to wait until the Royal Wedding was over (because he didn’t want rag heads blowing up the Queen and half the 1M person crowd) and then had to wait until after the Correspondents’ Dinner. Osama supposedly had a satellite TV, and somebody would have commented that something was up if Obama missed the dinner, which is a must-do for Presidents if they want positive press. The choice of the time slot, for the President to make his announcement, interrupting Celebrity Apprentice, was sheer David Axelrod genius. Axelrod is the most sophisticated Democratic press manipulator in the game, so I’m sure the temptation for humor, and to denigrate Mr. Trump’s importantce, was an opportunity just too tempting to miss.
  13. Mr PerezMay 4, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    I clearly love that I can come to SCVTalk to see ethnic, racial, religious epithets being hurled at any time of the day.
  14. Coastal SageMay 4, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    Usually I call all Muslims “cockroaches” but since Osama was a self-proclaimed religious leader, I used the more accurate and non inflammatory term. I also could have called him a “camel jockey”, but he was too old for that one. ASAMFu
  15. Mr PerezMay 4, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    Anytime you want to bravely call me a cockroach or any of these other terms to my face please feel free.
  16. BertaMay 4, 2011 at 6:36 pm
    Mr. Perez the name-calling based upon your faith is offensive and I am sorry you have been subjected to it. There are good decent people of all faiths and there are murderous zealots from all faiths too. Reasonable folks understand the difference. Osama Bin Laden was a crazy murderer and not much of a Muslim by all accounts. He murdered many innocent Muslims as well as other decent folks. The human race is better off without him.
  17. Mr PerezMay 4, 2011 at 10:04 pm
    Thank you Berta, I truly appreciate you saying that.
  18. MikeMay 4, 2011 at 5:55 pm
    Someone from the Reynolds school. I’m just glad time time has passed you old bigots on by.
  19. Gang FangMay 4, 2011 at 10:03 pm
    Stay classy, douchedrinker.
  20. messickMay 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    Axelrod hasn’t been the WH Press Secretary since January.
  21. Coastal SageMay 4, 2011 at 11:20 pm
    No, he’s running Obama’s re-election campaign, and is in constant contact with him on strategic matters. Not my candidate, but accuracy is important.
  22. PetzMay 3, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    To deny that enhanced interrogation did not play a vital role in getting clues to the couriers identity is to deny the truth. It is George W Bush , Dick Cheney, and Donald Runsfeld who should get this Profile in Courage. Shame on Dianne Feinstein and all the libs who said that enhanced interrogation was not vital in protecting innocent citizens. Oh, I’m sure the Guru has something pithy to add. Osama was so yesterday.
  23. Damage Inc.May 3, 2011 at 4:34 pm
    Shame on Petz for not giving respect to the office of the POTUS.
  24. spineflower2May 3, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” – G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 Yeah, Bush was behind this success. Sheesh! (and you couldn’t even post this fiction in the correct thread).
  25. Bill ReynoldsMay 3, 2011 at 5:49 pm
    Oh really… so water boarding during W’s admin had nothing to do with BHO killing OBL, eh? Study up, scooter… In liberal land, water boarding is very bad, but shooting an unarmed man in the forehead is very good. Ahmaaazzinggg.
  26. MikeMay 3, 2011 at 6:29 pm
    Just because you assume so, doesn’t make it so. Who was tortured with what technique to give us what evidence?
  27. ScottEMay 4, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    I thought I was Scooter? :-\
  28. PetzMay 3, 2011 at 5:17 pm
    Petz does not know why Jeff let’s a back bencher like Spineflower on to the front page. A distorter of the nth degree with no respect for the truth. Here is the complete statement that gives you context for the snipet posted by Nospineflower. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1244536/posts
  29. ScottEMay 3, 2011 at 7:16 pm
    Can someone explain to me the importance of whether a democrat or a republican was responsible for getting OBL? Wasn’t it America that got OBL? Wasn’t this a victory for all Americans? What I would like to say to anyone who insists on debating where the partisan credit should or shouldn’t go is this: S. T. F. U. Bunch of babies you are. Shut it.
  30. WalkerMay 3, 2011 at 8:29 pm
    Word.
  31. Bill ReynoldsMay 4, 2011 at 6:27 am
    Hey Scooter, in case you have not been paying attention, the subject of enhanced interrogation is being played out in the news. Get up to speed young man.
  32. ScooterMay 4, 2011 at 6:52 am
    I think you are confusing me with ScottE. Although ScottE is correct, this is a victory for all Americans. Those badass Navy seals were not concerned with this partisan BS when they stormed the compound and blasted Osama.
  33. Bill ReynoldsMay 4, 2011 at 7:36 am
    Nope… no confusion here. I applaud those Navy Seals for an outstanding and courageous mission. BRAVO! I’m wondering if this is the same Navy Seal unit that Obama court martialed for giving a captured terrorist a fat lip?
  34. ScottEMay 4, 2011 at 12:48 pm
    HoneyBadgerDon’tCare
  35. IHeartSCVMay 3, 2011 at 8:52 pm
    Encouraging news on high-speed rail from China. No project has driven up national debt quite as fast as a speeding train…$276B in the hole and counting! http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-trains-heading-off-the-rails/2011/04/22/AFHzaNWE_story_1.html
  36. IHeartSCVMay 3, 2011 at 9:08 pm
    Sorry to respond to my own comment; it’s just that a rail line costs a huge amount of money to build. Once it’s operating, it won’t even begin break even on operating costs. So it’s a massive one-time chunk of spending borne aloft by more continuous spending just to keep the trains running. As for ideas that the train will somehow facilitate commerce, I really wonder how many business transactions aren’t happening today because there isn’t a train from Fresno to Frisco. It’s not so hard for people to interact at a distance using present means–there are planes and freeways and same-day delivery and email and video conferences and phones. Do we need to ship in employees from 200 miles away given present unemployment levels? Will tourism magically sky-rocket because people can save an hour on a long trip? I think not. I predict that the high-speed rail will be as big a distaster as those horrible, wiggly metal ornaments on the new HMNMH parking structure that look like a roller coaster. That’s a complete disaster, for those keeping track.
  37. Coastal SageMay 3, 2011 at 11:58 pm
    Glad to hear the Chinese as famously competent number crunchers got one wrong. However, not to worry, they’ll just manufacture $276 Billion more in crap, and sell it to Americans in Walmarts and the 99 Cents Stores. Maybe they’ll ship $552 Billion in crap, ship it over here, and hold half price sales to sucker Americans into thinking they are getting a good deal. Remember the high level people in the Chinese government are the same people who convinced Great Britain to give back fee title ownership of the Crown Colony of Hong Kong, when its British colonial citizens didn’t want to become Chinese nationals. I still find that one unbelievable!
  38. Capt. GeneMay 4, 2011 at 3:55 am
    The difference between China blowing billions on HSR and California blowing billions is that China has people working that will use it. California should consider shifting the tracks to the East, at least then the trains will run at capacity in one direction.
  39. FredMay 3, 2011 at 9:22 pm
    Well, if they insist upon spending the state into oblivion, at least make sure the train has a swimming pool on it like that one from the Super Train TV show.
  40. Coastal SageMay 3, 2011 at 11:29 pm
    “May result in billions of savings over the AV/Soledad route, which requires a lot of tunneling and impact on endangered species” It’s not just the Soledad/Antelope Valley route. It’s also a route roughly parallel to Highway 58, between Mohave and Bealville, which is some of the most fault ridden, geologically complex terrain along the train’s originally proposed route, filled with huge mountains and valleys far deeper and steeper than anything along the Grapevine Route. If normal freight trains heading east have to go through the famous corkscrew tunnel to reach the top of the Tehachapi Pass, from an engineering and cost point of view I find it simply insane to try to run a 200 mph train up and down that pass, which parenthetically receives far more snow that the Grapevine. Wee!!!! A train going 200 mph losing its “footing” on ice, and falling down into a 500′ deep canyon near Hart Flat. Sounds like something the geniuses at Metrolink would design.
  41. Bill ReynoldsMay 4, 2011 at 8:40 am
    And the beat goes on… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9StxsFllY&feature=youtu.be
  42. Street KnowledgeMay 4, 2011 at 8:59 am
    Man if you fell for that, you’re as bad with PDFs as you are at editing videos.
  43. Bill ReynoldsMay 4, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Who said I fell for anything, Street No Knowledge?

Preserved as part of the SCV Talk Archive. Text is presented as originally published; presentation has been standardised for readability. The original capture is available at the Internet Archive.

Support