Libertarian group to protest McKeon/West BBQ

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

Image not recoveredmckeonprotest-300x234.jpg

McKeon/West BBQ and a protest sign that will appear at tomorrow's BBQ

A libertarian group, seemingly affiliated with the Ron Paul movement, plans to protest at Buck McKeon & Allen West’s barbecue in Agua Dulce tomorrow.

The group, Victor Valley Libertarian Alliance, is organizing the protest on Facebook, where at least 26 people say they are going to attend, including McKeon’s opponent in the June 5 Lee Rogers and local conservative radio talk jock Joe Messina.

The group calls Rep. McKeon a “traitor” for sponsoring and working to pass the National Defence Authorization Act of 2012, which the group says amounts to a violation of the US Constitution:

“Buck” McKeon has voted with the majority in
congress more than 95% of the time. Among his
legislative “gifts” is the National Defense Authorization Act
of 2012 which he sponsored in the House. The NDAA has
been called by some constitutionalists, “the most onerous
piece of legislation since the Alien and Sedition Acts of
1798 or the Espionage Act of 1917.”
While our representative, Buck McKeon has claimed
that with passage of NDAA 2012 “we have ensured that as
we fight terrorists around the world, we also protect the
civil liberties of Americans at home”, his understanding of
what constitutes “civil liberties” is questionable.

The appearance of the group at McKeon’s BBQ can’t be welcome news. I imagine our Congressman was hoping an appearance with Rep. Allen West, a certified Tea Party firebrand who recently discovered that 78-81 House Democrats are communists, would burnish his conserva-cred with local Tea Party types. To Tea Partiers, Allen West is the real deal; my sense is that Team McKeon’s hope was that locals would be so overcome with excitement at the site of West that they’d forgive/forget McKeon for the six months of solid & unprecedented bad press he’s had in these parts.

The only thing worse than having a bunch of Ron Paulistas show up at your family-friendly BBQ would be to have a bunch of Lyndon LaRouchites show up. Maybe we’ll get them too. Such are the hazards of having a nationally-known and powerful Congressman (alas we’re not even getting the benefits of Congressional pork!)

PS: This might just be the hottest ticket in town on Saturday night. Free wine, questionable BBQ & political entertainment? It’s like it was taylor-made for me! Maybe I’ll show up too.

PS #2: A reader tells me she received a robocall last night for Patricia McKeon for Assembly. Who made the robocall? Supervisor Mike Antonovich.

Comments (154)

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:00 AM PT

The only thing more ridiculous and desperate than an SCV event with Allen West is an SCV event with Sharron Angle.

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 1:14 AM PT

Think they could get Michelle Bachmann out here before June 5?

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 3:50 AM PT

Mike I think you’ve got things backwards. A campaign event with Congressman Allen West as the honored guest and featured speaker is way over the top into wacko-land, whereas Mrs. Angle is, in comparison, a nice, simple lady. From his Wikipedia biography, which Congressman West has always been free to edit if he disagrees with its content: ” While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men. The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer. West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted nor witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi. In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Hamoodi appeared to reach for his weapon and needed to be subdued. Hamoodi was beaten by four soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body. West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi’s head, after which Hamoodi provided West with names and information, which Hamoodi later described as “meaningless information induced by fear and pain.” At least one of these suspects was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found. West said “At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It’s possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi.” West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, “I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers.” The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000. LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would act differently under similar circumstances again, West testified, “If it’s about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I’d go through hell with a gasoline can.” At his hearing, West pointed out that there were no further ambushes against American forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4. After West’s retirement he received more than 2,000 letters and e-mails offering him moral support. A letter supporting West was signed by 95 members of Congress and sent to the Secretary of the Army. In September 2010, West spoke in defense of a group of U.S. military personnel known as the “Leavenworth 10″ who were convicted of war crimes.”

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 4:23 AM PT

Who do you want fighting wars for freedom, tough guys like West or wimps as with John F’n Kerry?

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 4:47 AM PT

I’ll take the Mossad rather than admittedly un-professional soldiers like West any day of the week.

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 5:05 AM PT

And this is why our wars drag out… fighting politically correct wars don’t work.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:08 AM PT

SMH

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 6:25 AM PT

And by politically correct, you mean following the Geneva code, acting as professionals, and not wantonly murdering & torturing people with brown skin.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:56 AM PT

Sorry, we have worked too hard in this ALL volunteer military to eliminate those types of violations, all the while being deployed in 2 simultaneous combat zones.

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 7:22 AM PT

I don’t understand. Explain?

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 8:00 AM PT

That’s it… go ahead and demonize our military personnel as liberals are want to do.

Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 9:37 AM PT

Jeff, I am sure you’re insinuating that violating the Geneva Convention and focusing on “brown” ppl to attack were things Bill wanted as opposed to reality. Bill, our current military today is of the highest calibre ever fielded. When have we ever been in 2 theatres of combat at the same time with an all volunteer military and had such low injury to death ratios? I am proud to serve everyday.

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 10:45 AM PT

I only insinuated that because Bill insinuated that following well-established rules of war was for weak sissies. He all but praised West for doing what he did, calling him a “tough guy.” What other conclusion should I have drawn given some of the minority of abuses that have occurred in the last 10 years?

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM PT

I think we got our comments crossed since my original response was to Bill and the assumption that our wars are lasting longer due to us being PC. With respect to Bill and all those others who served our Nation in such great capacity, our military has transformed into the best force ever to be fielded. We often are more successful simply because we take a cautious approach to something as opposed to acting with a heavy hand. General Petraeus, female engagement teams, etc. have worked wonders and produced real results as opposed to a simple body count. Now I don’t excuse any crimes committed from our forces but they often tend to be minor compared to previous conflicts and are actually prosecuted compared to past times. Given the size and time length of these operations, I would say our troops have done an EXCELLENT job.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:57 AM PT

I will definately take my hat off to the professionalism and expertise of the Mossad.

it is what it isMay 11, 2012 at 4:23 AM PT

Will the CEMEX mine people be there, with pro-CEMEX inside the gates munching on questionable BBQ and anti-CEMEX outside the gates carrying banners?

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 6:55 AM PT

It looks like there should be some professional political trackers inside the party, taking video of who is there. If there are mining industry officials and lobbyists inside, people will then know why Buck takes his current position on the Cemex legislation.

Lori RivasMay 11, 2012 at 1:02 AM PT

I received the robo-call, too.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:25 AM PT

I wonder if Jon Hatami is going to do a Ro-Bro call

VenturanMay 11, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT

If Hatami likes Wahoo’s, I vote to rename the cuisine “Ro-Bro-Mex.”

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:04 AM PT

I shudder to think of what passed as barbecue in the eyes of the local GOP. What’s with McKeon holding his biggest west coast shindig at a factory of strong drink?

NateMay 11, 2012 at 1:06 AM PT

HAHA

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 1:07 AM PT

OMG YES I ONLY POSTED THIS TO HEAR YOU DIG ON BBQ You’ll notice I called it “questionable” at the outset. Having tasted real Texas BBQ and Kansas City BBQ I now know that real BBQ doesn’t involve little bags of powder you buy at the supermarket.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:28 AM PT

I loved your line about “questionable BBQ”. I really hope someone manages a full report on the “BBQ” served. $5 says it’s Rattler’s.

AdamMay 11, 2012 at 1:39 AM PT

Wait, Rattler’s isn’t the best BBQ ever? I’ve been lied to by the SCV establishment for my whole life then… Darn you BBQ establishment!!!!!!

ScottEMay 11, 2012 at 1:59 AM PT

Rattler’s and BBQ should never even be mentioned in the same sentence. Doh! I did it!

Phil EllisMay 11, 2012 at 1:57 AM PT

You should have used that adjective on the wine as well.

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 2:23 AM PT

No wine is questionable after the first two glasses.

BertaMay 11, 2012 at 5:24 AM PT

Presumably as a Mormon Buck McKeon does not drink alcohol so interesting choice of venue for his event.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM PT

Whats next, me having my birthday soire at a distillery?

mikecMay 11, 2012 at 3:07 AM PT

how dare you sir…how dare you!!!

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 1:21 AM PT

Mike, I do take issue with your comment about Sharron Angle. Ms. Angle visits Santa Clarita often as she has family roots here. When she is in town, she is always invited to share her ideas about reforming government with the local Republican clubs. Congressman West’s visit is nothing like that. Congressman West, whom I otherwise respect was either strong-armed into participating in this charade or, more likely, he saw the value of owing a senior congressman in his caucus a favor and, not being from around here, had no idea of the significant doubt that voters have about McKeon continuing to run for this office decades after he first won the seat. And there will be more than just Ron Paul supporters and Democrats at the protest tomorrow. And please Mike, do not ascribe the attendees of this event with “the local Republicans”. The local Republicans go to bed every night with the praying for fresh, invigorated conservative leadership in Congress next year. But you’re right, these people wouldn’t know BBQ if you stuck a skewer up their asses and put them on a slow rotation over a hot but controlled pit for 7 hours.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:37 AM PT

I guess that makes a little more sense now. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand why she was the go-to for the local IHOP set. Still, associating with her is to embarrass oneself. If you want to imagine what it would be like to see Patricia McKeon run for U.S. Senate, you need to look no further than Sharron Angle’s 2010 campaign. While I know that many local Republicans would not attend this event on account of its host, I have reason to believe that local Republicans in general aren’t above throwing events centered around “questionable BBQ”.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 1:41 AM PT

Angle is nothing like Patricia McKeon. Please inform yourself by looking up her record of leadership. You will quickly determine that you commented in error Mike.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:56 AM PT

She is one of our foremost experts on using chicken as currency for healthcare services.

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 5:45 AM PT

Hey Mike, it was actually Mrs. Angle’s opponent, “Sassy Sue” Lowden, who made the comment about people paying doctors with poultry in the olden days. It was Harry Reid’s campaign communications geniuses who came up with the phrase “Chickens for Check Ups” and then buried Sassy Sue with a barrage of television advertising with that slogan during the Republican primaries. That’s why Mrs. Angle got the Republican nomination, thanks to Harry Reid’s campaign contributors. Poor Sassy Sue, she had been Chairwoman of the Nevada Republican Party, but sometimes verbal slip-ups while being followed by “opposition trackers with video cameras” can kill off a sure-bet primary campaign and allow a kinder, gentler candidate like Mrs. Angle a shot at the brass ring. For its entertainment value, this article has a good photo of Sassy Sue’s husband and some of their friends: http://www.lvrj.com/news/unlike-political-races-car-bomb-attempts-are-no-laughing-matter-68202782.html

mikeMay 11, 2012 at 5:52 AM PT

That’s right! I stand corrected. I also forgot that Harry Reid’s people worked so hard to get Angle on the ballot. That was a good one.

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 7:17 AM PT

By the way, Santa Claritans will need to send a whole lot of love Senator Harry Reid’s way if the Boxer/Feinstein supported “Cemex solution” bill is to get out of the Senate (assuming it finds a sponsor in the House.) The much feared Senator from Nevada is a loyal supporter of and campaign contribution recipient from mining industry lobbyists and their clients.

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 3:35 AM PT

Kevin, have you ever seen the 2010 television news footage of Mrs. Angle repeatedly sprinting away from reporters, in high heels, to avoid answering their questions? Are you implying that Mrs. McKeon is not fleet of foot in her Jimmy Choos?

NateMay 11, 2012 at 3:45 AM PT

I was going to respond with a plethera of crazy Angle quotes, but then I remembered all of your own crazy quotes and suddenly everything became clear.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:16 AM PT

Cockroach in DA HOUSE!!!

PetzMay 11, 2012 at 2:08 AM PT

Nothing could put Petz and Lucy back in the McKeon camp quicker that the Ron Paul nuts caliing him a traitor. Maybe McKeon is paying them to protest to gain support in the community. Must be an Alinsky trick of some type.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 2:10 AM PT

Petz has been laying the groundwork for a jump on McKeon’s wagon for weeks now. #sellout

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 3:17 AM PT

Saul Alinsky was a visiting lecturer at my college, and “Buck McKeon is no Saul Alinsky”.

PetzMay 11, 2012 at 3:56 AM PT

But Hauter is a disciple.

PetzMay 11, 2012 at 4:01 AM PT

Alinsky…Rules for Radicals p 116 “The first step in community organization is community disorganization. The disruption of the present organization is the first step toward community organization. Present arrangements must be disorganized if they are to be displace by new patterns…. All change means disorganization of the old and organization of the new.” p.116

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:18 AM PT

You best not be the realtor of choice for the Congressman if he loses office and decides to dump some property Petz! ;o)

NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:07 AM PT

Party Lemming…

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 7:03 AM PT

And uh, which Republicans are you crossing party lines to support this election season Nate. I sincerely hope you prove my assumption that you’ll be voting all D’s.

NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:36 AM PT

Like all good democrats I am volunteered on a Republican candidates campaign. I also offered my services to Mr. Acosta and Lee Rogers. I know independence is an impossible thing for a enslaved person such as yourself but trust me the freedom is great.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 2:09 AM PT

It’s difficult to respond to partisan rhetoric that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how Sharon Angle can to run for the Senate or just how close she actually came to being elected. One can quibble as to the applicability of her policies, but comparing Angle to McKeon is beyond the pale and I humbly request you retract the comparison or otherwise explain how McKeon and Angle have anything other than both being Republican women, in common sir.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:15 AM PT

She achieved what many thought was impossible: she lost to Harry Reid in 2010. Mike Tyson could have beat Harry Reid in 2010. I understand that conservatives are going to be conservative. No great shock there. Sharron Angle is in that “special” class of people who have no business running for political office. They struggle unreasonably with basic questions and inhabit the world of bizarre ideas like railing against fluoride in the water, Sharia-paranoia and a whole host of wacky ideas straight out of Scientology. In other words, a genuine nut. On second thought, I wonder if I’m being unkind to Patricia McKeon.

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 3:25 AM PT

Yeah Kev, drop Angle like the nut she is. You’d sooner have success convincing us of Christine O’Donnell’s legislative capabilities than Sharon Angle.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:30 AM PT

Where does Scott Wilk stand on Sharron Angle? It seems his whole camp is “nuts” for her.

AdamMay 11, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT

Let’s be fair here, there are candidates on both sides of the ideological aisle that the other side deems nuts. Trying to compare “who’s is bigger” is never going to come to any sort of consensus.

mikeMay 11, 2012 at 4:09 AM PT

I don’t know who’s nuts are nuttier, but we both have them. There’s a reason why I’m not involved in local party politics. Maybe because I’m so turned off when I hear my side represented by fringe characters that I have such a hard time understanding why so many local GOP’ers who fancy themselves as rational and respectable people would rope in with a John Birch type like Sharron Angle. On the autism/Scientology stuff, I’m not just needling here. It genuinely upsets me.

Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 4:49 AM PT

How many people here is SCV had a chance to vote for Angle?

NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:42 AM PT

Your troll brother John Ramirez? So one?

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM PT

As a father of a child on the autism spectrum, I really hope that current and would-be leaders in the SCV will disassociate themselves from Sharron Angle, who advocates reckless denial and neglect of a wide range of genuine metal health conditions. She has literally stood with Scientologists in their war on psychiatry, and she’s ardent opponent of seeing autism covered by health insurance plans and has openly mocked diagnoses of autism.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:19 AM PT

Oh, does she hang out with that douchebag Mike Savage?

Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 7:33 AM PT

Any relation to douchebag Dan Savage?

Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 10:32 AM PT

I’ll only be supporting Macho Man Randy Savage, Mean Gene!

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:30 AM PT

Mike, I really think that your responses are more hyperbole and hearsay than factual. For instance, I think that is it silly to suggest that it was a foregone conclusion that Angle would beat Reid, who is one of the most powerful elected officials in the Country. Having said that, and to up the ante on hyperbole, many voting and electioneering irregularities were noted in the election that might have swung the vote to Angle.

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 4:42 AM PT

Kevin, I rarely disagree with you in writing, but on the nuance in your comment you are 100% incorrect. The only official noise about “election irregularities” in the Reid-Angle match up was coming from a nutball woman lawyer from Oklahoma, not admitted to practice law in Nevada, who kept claiming she was Sharron Angle’s “election lawyer” and that there were irregularities. However, the Okie lawyer couldn’t back up her claims with any proof. The senior election officials in Clark County and Washoe County kept the Nevada television and print media apprised on their responses to the Okie lawyer’s claims. No one in the Nevada press including the very right wing Las Vegas Review Journal gave the Angle campaign’s claims any credence, and the Okie lawyer who cried wolf too often finally took a hint from the State Bar of Nevada, that she was breaking Nevada law by billing for legal fees for work done in Nevada without holding a Nevada Bar license, so she shut up and left town.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:04 AM PT

I admit I was referring to hearsay and cannot independently confirm any of the allegations.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:31 AM PT

CORRECTION: Having said that, and to up the ante on hyperbole, many voting and electioneering irregularities were noted in the election that might have helped Reid beat Angle.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:37 AM PT

Why did Sharron Angle lose? A conspiracy! I love it!

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 4:27 AM PT

So Harry Ried didn’t send buses for union workers to vote in mass in Las Vegas for him?

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 4:34 AM PT

Don’t forget Van Jones!

NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:37 AM PT

Even if true… Helping people get to the polls is now cheating?

ScottEMay 11, 2012 at 4:40 AM PT

#GETOFFMYLAWN!!

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:02 AM PT

That is one way of looking at it which is why I bring it up only as a reference. I wasn’t there so I don’t know what lengths and tactics the unions used to G.O.T.V.

NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM PT

I am not saying your father is a neo nazi… I am just saying his hair is pretty short and he doesn’t seem to be fond of minorities. I have no evidence to support this claim but it seems to feel right. Stick with the facts, you look desperate otherwise.

CastaicClayMay 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM PT

So he bused out of towners to the polls and they could vote?

PattyMay 14, 2012 at 1:17 AM PT

Were they not legal voters?

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 4:30 AM PT

The reality was that Nevada’s wealthy, prominent, powerful, sane Republicans know Sharron Angle, and as soon as Mrs. Angle beat her primary opponent (the wife of a retired casino mob associate) the “tasteful people” on the right stampeded into Harry Reid’s camp.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:06 AM PT

That is just as much conjecture as much as the claim of G.O.T.V. improprieties.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:08 AM PT

I think some of the voting irregularity claims were nothing more than a response to teh fact that Angle was polling well ahead of where the final vote came down. http://www.lvrj.com/news/reid-holds-off-challenger-angle-106597348.html

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 6:41 AM PT

Not conjecture Kevin, but fact. See for example this article from Las Vegas’ Republican oriented newspaper, the Las Vegas Review Journal: http://www.lvrj.com/news/46898112.html

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 7:00 AM PT

And some Democrats have supported me in the past. None of the names on that list are nationally recognized figures in the GOP. The most interesting (as in what a couple of boneheads) of this is Station Casinos executives Lorenzo Fertitta and Frank Fertitta III. Stations is now the victim of an all-out assault on their labor policies. A lot of good supporting Harry Reid has been for the Fertitta’s business.

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 7:49 AM PT

Kevin “Nationally recognized figures in the GOP” can’t vote in Nevada. The Republicans who publicly endorsed and voted for Sen. Reid were Nevada’s wealthy, prominent, powerful, pragmatic Republicans including Sig Rogich, the Godfather of Republican political consultants/campaign managers in Nevada. See: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/26/sig-rogich-influential-gop-endorses-reid/ Also see a “Why Angle Lost” article: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/05/nevada-political-climate-evolving/ Also note the Mrs. Angle was predicted to and did lose the precincts in Washoe County, where she sometimes lived. See: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/nevada-election-results-2010 “Given that every significant Reno Republican — including Mayor Bob Cashell (citing Angle’s “wild ideas”) and Ronald Reagan’s RNC chairman Frank Fahrenkopf — has endorsed Reid”

Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 8:17 AM PT

P.S. Kevin, the Fertitta Family has been in a unionizing battle with the Culinary Union for about 10 years. Sen. Harry Reid doesn’t control the Culinary Union, nor do they control him. The Fertitta Family are smart enough to know that nobody, including Harry Reid, can get the Culinary Union off their backs. The kinds of business people Sen. Reid pals around with and has as campaign donors don’t like the Culinary Union. The Culinary Union does a lot of wacky stuff, like suing the Democrat-controlled Las Vegas City Council to stop them from building a new city hall, until the Culinary Union got their way, in terms of the city using its “police powers” to force certain casinos to sign union contracts. (Not so brilliant legal reasoning behind that plan.) Of course, that gambit didn’t go very far, given that the new city hall was going to be/is a construction industry union built building. Sharron Angle is a nice lady who worked very hard to get Proposition 13-like measures on the statewide ballot time and time again but always failed. While she may be an interesting speaker on the chicken dinner circuit outside of Nevada, she is not accepted by Nevada’s rich Republican elite who live in Henderson, NV and Summerlin, NV and who make the bulk of the campaign donations to Republican causes in Nevada. For example, after her Senate race, in March 2011 Mrs. announced that she would run for the House seat held by Dean Heller, who was appointed to the Senate when Sen. John Ensign resigned after getting in trouble with the Senate Ethics Committee. Soon afterwards she dropped out of this race when all of the Republican elite anointed Mark Amodei for the House seat. Mrs. Angle made a hysterically funny reputation for herself, on television during the Senate race against Sen. Reid by literally sprinting away from the TV and big city print press every time they got near her, because she didn’t want to be “trapped into having to answer difficult questions.” I can think of at least one California Assembly candidate who appears to be following the same campaign strategy, including the financing of her campaign with out-of-state money, just like Mrs. Angle did.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:31 AM PT

Mike: Why do you hate Conservative women so much?

mikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT

Listen, no one cares more about the plight of Pepper Parkinson than I.

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:46 AM PT

Mike, I would not go as far as to say that I believe the election was stolen. Just that their was some funky union activity and other irregularities that may have affected the vote. The fact of the matter is that incumbency is a very powerful election tool and being the leader of the Senate didn’t hurt Reid either.

NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:06 AM PT

I am not saying your mother is a whore…

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:00 AM PT

This is where I say, “I know you are but what am I?”

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:25 AM PT

Oh you forgot, “I’m rubber, you’re glue, bounces off me and sticks to you!”

kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 6:56 AM PT

That was implied.

Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 10:33 AM PT

Oh cool

Cheryl PhillipsMay 12, 2012 at 12:34 AM PT

Why are we talking here about Nevada politics? Angle/Reid – over months ago.

Coastal SageMay 12, 2012 at 3:56 AM PT

Cheryl, Kevin Korenthal started the conversation by saying that one should never compare Patti McKeon to the saintly Sharron Angle. To my eye, their campaigns were/are being managed in the same way. Sprinting away from reporters and voters who might ask tough questions.

BertaMay 11, 2012 at 4:20 AM PT

I have to disagree with the nastier comments regarding Sharon Angle. As a Decline to State non partisan voter I had the opportunity to meet her, had a lengthily one on one conversation with her, and found her intelligent, articulate, pleasant, and not at all what I had been led to believe so I am thankful I kept an open mind. I also received the Pat McKeon/Antonovich robo call as well as one from some self-identified Mexican legal rights group touting Superior Court Judge Candidate Berj Parseghian. Thanks for the call guys since I knew nothing about him but if you are backing him that would be a big NO vote from me.

NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:33 AM PT

Charisma covers a multitude of crazy for Berta

BertaMay 11, 2012 at 5:09 AM PT

Nate unlike some of you, I am sensitive to the fact that there are many folks with biologically based brain diseases who struggle every day just to get through the day with some level of normalcy. I understand the issues so called “crazy” folks deal with, so I do not further stigmatize people by misusing the term. Nor do I formulate my opinions based upon on what folks like you say either.

Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 11:43 PM PT

Nate suffers from “Charisma Envy”.

NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:44 AM PT

So you are saying Sharon Angle has some sort of brain disease?

BertaMay 14, 2012 at 2:06 AM PT

No Nate, I am saying your words are insensitive and further stigmatize folks who genuinely have biologically based brain diseases in your efforts to discredit and insult folks you simply disagree with. You and others call people “crazy” a lot when you do not get your way. You have also said that folks are “off their meds” including to me, implying the same thing. I am suggesting that perhaps you could try arguing your point, if you have one, without bringing a medical diagnosis into the conversation, which you are not qualified to make.

NateMay 15, 2012 at 3:54 AM PT

HAHAHA Berta is the P.C. police… now “Crazy” is a insensitive term! Where are all the el Rushbo fan to pile on Berta for helping ruining America.

Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 5:44 AM PT

If they support Buck you can feed them Kool-Aid, they’re used to it.

Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 6:33 AM PT

Why do librarians care about Buck?

RemStarMay 11, 2012 at 7:07 AM PT

Impredict that in 2016 Mike Antonovich will run his unqualified wife to replace him as County Supervisor. I further predict that Buck McKeon will endorse Mrs. Antonovich.

ToddMay 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM PT

I know where you’re going… but I don’t think we have to worry about that… Last I understood, she’s a Chinese National, not eligible to be elected to office in the US.

Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 11:48 PM PT

Yet.

Crazy DudeMay 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM PT

You nailed it Mr. Jef, our soldiers are criminals.

Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 10:35 AM PT

Ladies and gentlemen, introducing either the most facetious man in the SCV or the biggest $hitstick this side of the Mississippi.

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 12:28 PM PT

Jeff: I only insinuated that because Bill insinuated that following well-established rules of war was for weak sissies. He all but praised West for doing what he did, calling him a “tough guy.” What other conclusion should I have drawn given some of the minority of abuses that have occurred in the last 10 years? @Jeff: That’s your assumption. West is a tough guy, who would you have fighting wars? Wimps like Hanoi John F’n Kerry who lied about Vietnam soldiers!? Now here you go again whining about US Soldier misconduct while Jihadist randomly kill civilians, cut off heads, slam airplane’s into our buildings, etc. C’mon man…

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 12:57 PM PT

Regardless the conduct of the enemy, we as an American fighting force do not alter how we operate nor lower ourselves to their standards. When you do that you have lost the moral upperhand.

MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 1:40 PM PT

Here you go Bill, Army Field Manual 6-22, Chapter 4-1: “On the morning of 28 February 1991, about a half-hour prior to the cease-fire, a T-55 tank pulled up in front of a U.S Bradley unit, which immediately prepared to engage with TOW missiles. A vehicle section consisting of the platoon sergeant and his wingman tracked the Iraqi tank, ready to unleash two deadly shots. Suddenly, the wingman saw the T-55 tank stop and a head popped up from the commander’s cupola. The wingman immediately radioed to his platoon sergeant to hold his fire, believing that the Iraqi was about to dismount the vehicle, possibly to surrender. The Iraqi tank crew jumped off their vehicle and ran behind a sand dune. Sensing something was not right, the platoon sergeant immediately instructed his wingman to investigate the area around a nearby dune, while he provided cover with his weapons. To everyone’s surprise, the wingman and his crew soon discovered 150 enemy combatants ready to surrender. To deal with this vast number of prisoners, the American unit lined them up and ran them through a gauntlet to disarm them and check them for items of intelligence value. Then the unit called for prisoner of war handlers to pick them up. Before moving on, the platoon sergeant had to destroy the T-55 tank. Before blowing it in place, the NCO instructed it moved behind a sand berm to protect his people and the prisoners from the shrapnel of the tank’s on-board munitions. When the tank suddenly exploded and the small arms cooked-off, sounding as if small arms were fired, the prisoners panicked, believing the Soldiers would shoot them. Quickly, the Soldiers communicated that this would not happen, one of them telling the Iraqis, “Hey, we’re from America, we don’t shoot our prisoners!” This story is illustrated as an example of Army Values in action, not “being PC” causing wars to stretch on and on.

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 2:12 PM PT

Tell that to FDR who placed US civilians in isolated camps. Now a days we insanely have Afgans pulling security for our troops and they’re randomly shooting our soldiers. Please don’t get high and mighty about combat situations…

Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 2:50 PM PT

Bill, using WW2 examples and decisions by our civilian leaders does not detract from the fact we operate on standards and values. I’m sorry you feel that today’s Army sucks compared to what it was during your time.

PetzMay 11, 2012 at 9:03 PM PT

I am reading a book “Soldiers Heart” by an Ivy League educated English teacher at West Point. She contiually talks about the atrocities of Abu Ghrab and Gitmo. Furthermore she talks about how Army ethicists at West Point share her opinion. The book was written in 2007 and I wonder what she would say now. Petz says you prosecute a war to win it or you go home. You protect and cover your soldiers first.

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 10:20 PM PT

Right o Petz… I agree 100%!

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM PT

Including ones who go and blow away 13 sleeping Afghans? I mean seriously?

BertaMay 12, 2012 at 1:36 AM PT

Jeff because one of our soldiers allegedly commits a heinous crime does not make all of our soldiers murders. He may have simply snapped after several tours of duty. We will not know until the details come out at trial. In any event, our soldier will be tried and if found guilty punished. If the situation were reversed and an Afghan soldier had killed that many of ours, he would be lauded as a hero with parades through the streets, so while I do not condone killing innocent civilians, if that is in fact what they were, I do try to keep things in perspective, this is a war and unfortunate things do happen during such trying times. I do however agree with Petz. If we are going to spend blood and treasure on any war, we should be in it to win, have an executable plan, and protect our personnel to the maximum degree possible. No Afghan supposed “allies” should be in a position of trust able to kill our unarmed soldiers as happened with Rudy Acosta, NONE.

PetzMay 12, 2012 at 1:50 AM PT

Sometimes you think there is hope for Jeff,, and sometimes you want to smack him.

Mr PerezMay 12, 2012 at 2:29 PM PT

Petz,you always protect your troops first but are you insinuating that if a violation of the UCMJ is done that the person isn’t prosecuted?

Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 10:19 PM PT

There you go again making silly accusations. During my time politicians also tied one hand behind our backs, but at least we handled our own base camp security rather than rely on local militia. You know that makes no sense.

JeffMay 11, 2012 at 11:29 PM PT

Blame Rumsfeld. He overturned the Powell Doctrine and sought to outsource as much of the Army’s traditional functions as possible, including security. How would you have liked it if in Vietnam you were working alongside private contractors making 4x what you were? I’ve talked to some soldiers and they resent it.

Mr PerezMay 12, 2012 at 2:35 PM PT

Jeff, we were short quite a few troops thanks to downsizing from the Clinton era and it also didn’t help when you had ppl actively working against the recruiters. American Contractors filled some of the voids but I never felt jealous since I’m a Soldier, not a mercenary.

Mr PerezMay 12, 2012 at 2:27 PM PT

First off Bill, I didn’t get high and mighty about anything. I simply copied and pasted a small portion of Army leadership training for you. Leadership is of the upmost importance given our current optempo and especially so to a career leader such as myself. Without it you have anarchy and people commiting acts like making ear necklaces or torching villages, something unnacceptable in a professional, disciplined Army. I won’t /can’t comment on the contractor issue but know that I always watched my 6 and those around me whenever around civilians of another nation, nuff said.

MikeMay 12, 2012 at 3:22 PM PT

Perez schools Reynolds. Every time.

Bill ReynoldsMay 12, 2012 at 10:34 PM PT

Good luck on that one Mike. Perez, your response is rather weak; every Army has its share of rogue soldiers who go off the reservation and are dealt with. Left wingers will have you believe its the norm… and, and and it’s Bush’s fault. Hello Jeff.

Mr PerezMay 13, 2012 at 6:46 AM PT

Not attempting to school you Bill but definately attempting to educate you on how differently someone views things who comes into the military for a few years and someone who makes it a profession of arms. I understand whole heartidly that any abuses and crimes are few and far between. None the less they aren’t acceptable. From the original comment I don’t believe Congressman West committed an abuse but rather a minor violation of the ROE and UCMJ. With that being said, one should be contrite after an error.

Bill ReynoldsMay 14, 2012 at 1:57 AM PT

Agreed…

Mr PerezMay 13, 2012 at 7:16 AM PT

And if you look Bill, I said what you did about it being a rogue occurrence as opposed to the norm, like 2-3x beforr you did. We seem to be agreeing on most things but I’m getting the feeling you’re trying to be the Alpha dog as opposed to seeing this. My main point of contention was how you say we are too busy fighting wars politically correct, and I’m trying to show you the standards have been almost the same from the get go and its a structure and system we created to ensure we fight ethically and morally. What do you consider PC or what shouldn’t be prosecuted in a war zone?

Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 2:36 PM PT

Carpet bombing wins wars.

JeffMay 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM PT

You were there, did Operation Linebacker & Rolling Thunder win Vietnam for us? Asking in all sincerity

NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:50 AM PT

“Carpet bombing wins wars.” ~Hitler “Bring it punk.” ~Winston Churchill

MrPerezMay 14, 2012 at 1:39 AM PT

Carpet bombing? Seriously? Next you’re going to suggest we start riding horses around instead of motorized vehicles lol. I understand it’s been a while since you’ve been in the Army but we have these things called precision munitions, and I can laze in on a target and have either an artillery round, Hellfire missile, or a JDAM take out anything I need to. If I want mass coverage, I can use an MLRS and have an entire grid square covered. But Carpet Bombing is both antiquidated and involves innocent casualties. In WW2 alone, there are over 580,000 innocent civilian deaths in a 9 month period.

Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 12:38 AM PT

Yeah, and we don’t fight wars for victory anymore do we?

MikeMay 13, 2012 at 2:09 AM PT

“I ask, ’cause I’m not sure. Does anybody make real shit anymore?” -West

Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 10:35 PM PT

Jeff wrote: You were there, did Operation Linebacker & Rolling Thunder win Vietnam for us? Asking in all sincerity. @Jeff: First, I doubt your sincerity, but here’s what happened in a nutshell. LBJ provoked Ho Chi Minh using secret CIA operatives to blow up bridges, etc, which caused the Gulf of Tonkin incident (1964), which in turn gave LBJ a “reason” to start full blown warfare against Uncle Ho. Later, during the 1968 Tet offensive, a colossal loss for the NVA, Cronkite suggested LBJ find a way out of the war because we were losing – that was an outright lie – LBJ immediately chose to NOT run for re-election and to begin negotiating for peace. Politicians gave up. I’ll get you a documenatry if you like. }

Mr PerezMay 14, 2012 at 3:27 AM PT

Not only did politicians give up but a lot of civilians lost perspective and treated the troops like trash. Total dishonor on their part.

IHeartSCVMay 11, 2012 at 1:22 PM PT

Speaking of robocalls for assembly, a Tom McClintock robocall went out on behalf of Scott Wilk tonight. Apparently, he’s the only “true conservative” and he’s willing to stand up to “special interests”; it seems McClintock is unfamiliar with Wilk’s past.

PetzMay 11, 2012 at 8:49 PM PT

Disappointed in the last post by Iheart SCV…..Scott Wilk has a history of taking unpopular positions of the COC board. A real cheap shot and Petz is calling you out.

IHeartSCVMay 12, 2012 at 2:23 AM PT

Petz, I don’t see how Wilk is supposed to stand up againsts “special interests” when much of his previous work involved selling his influence to whatever special interest paid for it. I’ve linked to this before–it’s a few years old but a helpful summary, nonetheless. http://media.morristechnology.com/mediafilesvr/upload/santa_clarita/singlepdfs/51-Aug08-Web_18.pdf Wilk worked to pass a $160M bond to pay for COC construction; he worked to pass the open space tax initiative; there was another school bond request; and he was one of the leaders opposing power towers being built in Belcaro while promoting building medical office buildings at Newhall Memorial (arguing to save views/quality of life in one community while promoting the opposite in another). Which of those projects strikes you as particularly conservative…or consistent? He knows more than Patricia McKeon, but that’s about all I can say. And Petz, stop taking cheap shots against punctuation: ellipses only have three stops, not five [...] vs. [.....].

PetzMay 12, 2012 at 3:19 AM PT

Ok, we can agree that Wilk is an effective advocate.

mikeMay 12, 2012 at 4:01 AM PT

Don’t stop there. Petz also prefers the French-style space before exclamation points.

AdamMay 12, 2012 at 2:06 PM PT

iHeart I think someone else noted this before, but On those initiatives Wilk was a paid consultant. Arguing for his employers. Sometimes, in almost any line of work, you end up coming across issues that may be unpopular that you have to support because it’s your job. I know in my job, we take on clients that I don’t always agree with ideologically, but I still will work to give them the best service possible. Scott is the type of person who will fight for causes he believes in too. Take his (unpaid volunteer time) work on the redistricting last year. It is largely because of him that Santa Clarita is for the most part in 1 Assembly District, 1 Congressional, and the same 2 Senate districts as before. Thats a cause he believed in and fought for. I’ve known him for 20 years and I know he’ll be the type of guy who votes his conscience and what he thinks is best, bit based on who gives him the most campaign dollars.

AdamMay 12, 2012 at 2:07 PM PT

***not based on who gives him the most campaign dollars.

IHeartSCVMay 13, 2012 at 3:04 AM PT

Honestly, Adam, I’d like a better example because the “cause” you’re saying Wilk believed in and fought for was drawing political districts in a way that’s most advantageous for him and his party. How noble and selfless indeed… I also dislike the idea of excusing bad behavior because it’s “part of the job.” That’s compromising one’s principles for money, which is troubling. I’m no idealist, but I think it’s laughable that people defend the causes he has worked for, the attack ads he has run, etc. by saying it was his job. If you think people are really that easily compartmentalized between private and political lives, I think you’re wrong.

Phil EllisMay 14, 2012 at 12:08 AM PT

I read the link and saw nothing negative about Scott. He still has my vote (actually, I already voted for him.)

Cheryl PhillipsMay 12, 2012 at 12:45 AM PT

Great post and interview yesterday with Rogers, Jeff. This is exactly the kind of stuff we need for all our voters to read. God knows we won’t see these kind of questions in TMS. Can’t wait for when you interview, Buck! ya, right.

Coastal SageMay 12, 2012 at 3:40 AM PT

Though I think they’d be afraid to do it, I’d like to see Mrs. McKeon submit to video taped interview by Jeff which could be posted on the internet for all to see. As a candidate for election to public office, if one doesn’t have the level of self-confidence to be interviewed by people who will not toss softball questions, then the candidate doesn’t deserve to be elected. I’ll never forget that interview where Katie Couric asked Sarah Palin what publications Mrs. Palin read. While Mrs. McKeon might be ready with an answer to that question, I bet there are a raft of technical questions about Santa Clarita’s problems which the little lady couldn’t come close to answering. Why must a candidate show that they can survive a tough interview? Because in the Assembly there are a whole lot of smart Assemblymen who will take advantage of a “dumb” Assemblyman from another district, to the detriment of the constituents of the dummy. Santa Claritans never had to worry about Cameron Smyth or Keith Richman being a dummy. One may not have agreed with them, but at least one knew that there were fully functioning brains in their skulls.

Bill ReynoldsMay 12, 2012 at 1:53 AM PT

Jeff says: Blame Rumsfeld. He overturned the Powell Doctrine and sought to outsource as much of the Army’s traditional functions as possible, including security. How would you have liked it if in Vietnam you were working alongside private contractors making 4x what you were? I’ve talked to some soldiers and they resent it. @Jeff: Didn’t Obama run on “Hope & Change”. Hah! Liberals cannot continue blaming Bush and expect rational thinking people to buy into that garbage. BTW, is GITMO still open? BTW, does Obama simply murder people (OBL, etc.) rather capture terrorists for interrogation… waterboarding bad, killing people good. C’mon man.

CastaicClayMay 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM PT

When did the statute of limitations run out on Bush? Ya all still bring up Ray-gun.

Gang FangMay 12, 2012 at 11:47 PM PT

When did Bill start calling everyone “man”?

Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 12:40 AM PT

Hey man, mind your own business… man.

NateMay 15, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT

26 straight months of job growth. 22 straight month of economic growth. I can write the commercials myself… do I have to find all the juicy republican sound bits that say they number 1 goal is to make Obama a 1 term pres? Wrong answer the correct answer the american people were looking for was… CREATE JOBS.

PetzMay 12, 2012 at 4:01 AM PT

jeff , just throws that $#@% out for chum.

Bill ReynoldsMay 12, 2012 at 5:03 AM PT

Truly…

PetzMay 12, 2012 at 10:15 PM PT

So while Jeff is blog chumming about a rare war atrocity commited by an American, Rhamani is shot dead by the Taliban and a Green Beret is shot by an Afghan. Jeff never mentions the Muslim persecution of Christians in Islamic countries because #1 he thinks they deserve it -#2 it does not fit his narrative. How about Major Hassan-has he been tried…was that an act of Islamic violence or a work place shooting….?

Mr PerezMay 13, 2012 at 6:50 AM PT

Stop with the reverse chumming Petz and keep in the center away from extremism.

MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:00 AM PT
The only thing more ridiculous and desperate than an SCV event with Allen West is an SCV event with Sharron Angle.
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 1:14 AM PT
Think they could get Michelle Bachmann out here before June 5?
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 3:50 AM PT
Mike I think you’ve got things backwards. A campaign event with Congressman Allen West as the honored guest and featured speaker is way over the top into wacko-land, whereas Mrs. Angle is, in comparison, a nice, simple lady. From his Wikipedia biography, which Congressman West has always been free to edit if he disagrees with its content: ” While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men. The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer. West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted nor witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi. In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Hamoodi appeared to reach for his weapon and needed to be subdued. Hamoodi was beaten by four soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body. West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi’s head, after which Hamoodi provided West with names and information, which Hamoodi later described as “meaningless information induced by fear and pain.” At least one of these suspects was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found. West said “At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It’s possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi.” West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, “I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers.” The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000. LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would act differently under similar circumstances again, West testified, “If it’s about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I’d go through hell with a gasoline can.” At his hearing, West pointed out that there were no further ambushes against American forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4. After West’s retirement he received more than 2,000 letters and e-mails offering him moral support. A letter supporting West was signed by 95 members of Congress and sent to the Secretary of the Army. In September 2010, West spoke in defense of a group of U.S. military personnel known as the “Leavenworth 10″ who were convicted of war crimes.”
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 4:23 AM PT
Who do you want fighting wars for freedom, tough guys like West or wimps as with John F’n Kerry?
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 4:47 AM PT
I’ll take the Mossad rather than admittedly un-professional soldiers like West any day of the week.
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 5:05 AM PT
And this is why our wars drag out… fighting politically correct wars don’t work.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:08 AM PT
SMH
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 6:25 AM PT
And by politically correct, you mean following the Geneva code, acting as professionals, and not wantonly murdering & torturing people with brown skin.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:56 AM PT
Sorry, we have worked too hard in this ALL volunteer military to eliminate those types of violations, all the while being deployed in 2 simultaneous combat zones.
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 7:22 AM PT
I don’t understand. Explain?
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 8:00 AM PT
That’s it… go ahead and demonize our military personnel as liberals are want to do.
Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 9:37 AM PT
Jeff, I am sure you’re insinuating that violating the Geneva Convention and focusing on “brown” ppl to attack were things Bill wanted as opposed to reality. Bill, our current military today is of the highest calibre ever fielded. When have we ever been in 2 theatres of combat at the same time with an all volunteer military and had such low injury to death ratios? I am proud to serve everyday.
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 10:45 AM PT
I only insinuated that because Bill insinuated that following well-established rules of war was for weak sissies. He all but praised West for doing what he did, calling him a “tough guy.” What other conclusion should I have drawn given some of the minority of abuses that have occurred in the last 10 years?
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM PT
I think we got our comments crossed since my original response was to Bill and the assumption that our wars are lasting longer due to us being PC. With respect to Bill and all those others who served our Nation in such great capacity, our military has transformed into the best force ever to be fielded. We often are more successful simply because we take a cautious approach to something as opposed to acting with a heavy hand. General Petraeus, female engagement teams, etc. have worked wonders and produced real results as opposed to a simple body count. Now I don’t excuse any crimes committed from our forces but they often tend to be minor compared to previous conflicts and are actually prosecuted compared to past times. Given the size and time length of these operations, I would say our troops have done an EXCELLENT job.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:57 AM PT
I will definately take my hat off to the professionalism and expertise of the Mossad.
it is what it isMay 11, 2012 at 4:23 AM PT
Will the CEMEX mine people be there, with pro-CEMEX inside the gates munching on questionable BBQ and anti-CEMEX outside the gates carrying banners?
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 6:55 AM PT
It looks like there should be some professional political trackers inside the party, taking video of who is there. If there are mining industry officials and lobbyists inside, people will then know why Buck takes his current position on the Cemex legislation.
Lori RivasMay 11, 2012 at 1:02 AM PT
I received the robo-call, too.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:25 AM PT
I wonder if Jon Hatami is going to do a Ro-Bro call
VenturanMay 11, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT
If Hatami likes Wahoo’s, I vote to rename the cuisine “Ro-Bro-Mex.”
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:04 AM PT
I shudder to think of what passed as barbecue in the eyes of the local GOP. What’s with McKeon holding his biggest west coast shindig at a factory of strong drink?
NateMay 11, 2012 at 1:06 AM PT
HAHA
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 1:07 AM PT
OMG YES I ONLY POSTED THIS TO HEAR YOU DIG ON BBQ You’ll notice I called it “questionable” at the outset. Having tasted real Texas BBQ and Kansas City BBQ I now know that real BBQ doesn’t involve little bags of powder you buy at the supermarket.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:28 AM PT
I loved your line about “questionable BBQ”. I really hope someone manages a full report on the “BBQ” served. $5 says it’s Rattler’s.
AdamMay 11, 2012 at 1:39 AM PT
Wait, Rattler’s isn’t the best BBQ ever? I’ve been lied to by the SCV establishment for my whole life then… Darn you BBQ establishment!!!!!!
ScottEMay 11, 2012 at 1:59 AM PT
Rattler’s and BBQ should never even be mentioned in the same sentence. Doh! I did it!
Phil EllisMay 11, 2012 at 1:57 AM PT
You should have used that adjective on the wine as well.
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 2:23 AM PT
No wine is questionable after the first two glasses.
BertaMay 11, 2012 at 5:24 AM PT
Presumably as a Mormon Buck McKeon does not drink alcohol so interesting choice of venue for his event.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM PT
Whats next, me having my birthday soire at a distillery?
mikecMay 11, 2012 at 3:07 AM PT
how dare you sir…how dare you!!!
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 1:21 AM PT
Mike, I do take issue with your comment about Sharron Angle. Ms. Angle visits Santa Clarita often as she has family roots here. When she is in town, she is always invited to share her ideas about reforming government with the local Republican clubs. Congressman West’s visit is nothing like that. Congressman West, whom I otherwise respect was either strong-armed into participating in this charade or, more likely, he saw the value of owing a senior congressman in his caucus a favor and, not being from around here, had no idea of the significant doubt that voters have about McKeon continuing to run for this office decades after he first won the seat. And there will be more than just Ron Paul supporters and Democrats at the protest tomorrow. And please Mike, do not ascribe the attendees of this event with “the local Republicans”. The local Republicans go to bed every night with the praying for fresh, invigorated conservative leadership in Congress next year. But you’re right, these people wouldn’t know BBQ if you stuck a skewer up their asses and put them on a slow rotation over a hot but controlled pit for 7 hours.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:37 AM PT
I guess that makes a little more sense now. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand why she was the go-to for the local IHOP set. Still, associating with her is to embarrass oneself. If you want to imagine what it would be like to see Patricia McKeon run for U.S. Senate, you need to look no further than Sharron Angle’s 2010 campaign. While I know that many local Republicans would not attend this event on account of its host, I have reason to believe that local Republicans in general aren’t above throwing events centered around “questionable BBQ”.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 1:41 AM PT
Angle is nothing like Patricia McKeon. Please inform yourself by looking up her record of leadership. You will quickly determine that you commented in error Mike.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 1:56 AM PT
She is one of our foremost experts on using chicken as currency for healthcare services.
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 5:45 AM PT
Hey Mike, it was actually Mrs. Angle’s opponent, “Sassy Sue” Lowden, who made the comment about people paying doctors with poultry in the olden days. It was Harry Reid’s campaign communications geniuses who came up with the phrase “Chickens for Check Ups” and then buried Sassy Sue with a barrage of television advertising with that slogan during the Republican primaries. That’s why Mrs. Angle got the Republican nomination, thanks to Harry Reid’s campaign contributors. Poor Sassy Sue, she had been Chairwoman of the Nevada Republican Party, but sometimes verbal slip-ups while being followed by “opposition trackers with video cameras” can kill off a sure-bet primary campaign and allow a kinder, gentler candidate like Mrs. Angle a shot at the brass ring. For its entertainment value, this article has a good photo of Sassy Sue’s husband and some of their friends: http://www.lvrj.com/news/unlike-political-races-car-bomb-attempts-are-no-laughing-matter-68202782.html
mikeMay 11, 2012 at 5:52 AM PT
That’s right! I stand corrected. I also forgot that Harry Reid’s people worked so hard to get Angle on the ballot. That was a good one.
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 7:17 AM PT
By the way, Santa Claritans will need to send a whole lot of love Senator Harry Reid’s way if the Boxer/Feinstein supported “Cemex solution” bill is to get out of the Senate (assuming it finds a sponsor in the House.) The much feared Senator from Nevada is a loyal supporter of and campaign contribution recipient from mining industry lobbyists and their clients.
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 3:35 AM PT
Kevin, have you ever seen the 2010 television news footage of Mrs. Angle repeatedly sprinting away from reporters, in high heels, to avoid answering their questions? Are you implying that Mrs. McKeon is not fleet of foot in her Jimmy Choos?
NateMay 11, 2012 at 3:45 AM PT
I was going to respond with a plethera of crazy Angle quotes, but then I remembered all of your own crazy quotes and suddenly everything became clear.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:16 AM PT
Cockroach in DA HOUSE!!!
PetzMay 11, 2012 at 2:08 AM PT
Nothing could put Petz and Lucy back in the McKeon camp quicker that the Ron Paul nuts caliing him a traitor. Maybe McKeon is paying them to protest to gain support in the community. Must be an Alinsky trick of some type.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 2:10 AM PT
Petz has been laying the groundwork for a jump on McKeon’s wagon for weeks now. #sellout
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 3:17 AM PT
Saul Alinsky was a visiting lecturer at my college, and “Buck McKeon is no Saul Alinsky”.
PetzMay 11, 2012 at 3:56 AM PT
But Hauter is a disciple.
PetzMay 11, 2012 at 4:01 AM PT
Alinsky…Rules for Radicals p 116 “The first step in community organization is community disorganization. The disruption of the present organization is the first step toward community organization. Present arrangements must be disorganized if they are to be displace by new patterns…. All change means disorganization of the old and organization of the new.” p.116
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:18 AM PT
You best not be the realtor of choice for the Congressman if he loses office and decides to dump some property Petz! ;o)
NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:07 AM PT
Party Lemming…
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 7:03 AM PT
And uh, which Republicans are you crossing party lines to support this election season Nate. I sincerely hope you prove my assumption that you’ll be voting all D’s.
NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:36 AM PT
Like all good democrats I am volunteered on a Republican candidates campaign. I also offered my services to Mr. Acosta and Lee Rogers. I know independence is an impossible thing for a enslaved person such as yourself but trust me the freedom is great.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 2:09 AM PT
It’s difficult to respond to partisan rhetoric that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how Sharon Angle can to run for the Senate or just how close she actually came to being elected. One can quibble as to the applicability of her policies, but comparing Angle to McKeon is beyond the pale and I humbly request you retract the comparison or otherwise explain how McKeon and Angle have anything other than both being Republican women, in common sir.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:15 AM PT
She achieved what many thought was impossible: she lost to Harry Reid in 2010. Mike Tyson could have beat Harry Reid in 2010. I understand that conservatives are going to be conservative. No great shock there. Sharron Angle is in that “special” class of people who have no business running for political office. They struggle unreasonably with basic questions and inhabit the world of bizarre ideas like railing against fluoride in the water, Sharia-paranoia and a whole host of wacky ideas straight out of Scientology. In other words, a genuine nut. On second thought, I wonder if I’m being unkind to Patricia McKeon.
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 3:25 AM PT
Yeah Kev, drop Angle like the nut she is. You’d sooner have success convincing us of Christine O’Donnell’s legislative capabilities than Sharon Angle.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:30 AM PT
Where does Scott Wilk stand on Sharron Angle? It seems his whole camp is “nuts” for her.
AdamMay 11, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT
Let’s be fair here, there are candidates on both sides of the ideological aisle that the other side deems nuts. Trying to compare “who’s is bigger” is never going to come to any sort of consensus.
mikeMay 11, 2012 at 4:09 AM PT
I don’t know who’s nuts are nuttier, but we both have them. There’s a reason why I’m not involved in local party politics. Maybe because I’m so turned off when I hear my side represented by fringe characters that I have such a hard time understanding why so many local GOP’ers who fancy themselves as rational and respectable people would rope in with a John Birch type like Sharron Angle. On the autism/Scientology stuff, I’m not just needling here. It genuinely upsets me.
Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 4:49 AM PT
How many people here is SCV had a chance to vote for Angle?
NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:42 AM PT
Your troll brother John Ramirez? So one?
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM PT
As a father of a child on the autism spectrum, I really hope that current and would-be leaders in the SCV will disassociate themselves from Sharron Angle, who advocates reckless denial and neglect of a wide range of genuine metal health conditions. She has literally stood with Scientologists in their war on psychiatry, and she’s ardent opponent of seeing autism covered by health insurance plans and has openly mocked diagnoses of autism.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:19 AM PT
Oh, does she hang out with that douchebag Mike Savage?
Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 7:33 AM PT
Any relation to douchebag Dan Savage?
Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 10:32 AM PT
I’ll only be supporting Macho Man Randy Savage, Mean Gene!
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:30 AM PT
Mike, I really think that your responses are more hyperbole and hearsay than factual. For instance, I think that is it silly to suggest that it was a foregone conclusion that Angle would beat Reid, who is one of the most powerful elected officials in the Country. Having said that, and to up the ante on hyperbole, many voting and electioneering irregularities were noted in the election that might have swung the vote to Angle.
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 4:42 AM PT
Kevin, I rarely disagree with you in writing, but on the nuance in your comment you are 100% incorrect. The only official noise about “election irregularities” in the Reid-Angle match up was coming from a nutball woman lawyer from Oklahoma, not admitted to practice law in Nevada, who kept claiming she was Sharron Angle’s “election lawyer” and that there were irregularities. However, the Okie lawyer couldn’t back up her claims with any proof. The senior election officials in Clark County and Washoe County kept the Nevada television and print media apprised on their responses to the Okie lawyer’s claims. No one in the Nevada press including the very right wing Las Vegas Review Journal gave the Angle campaign’s claims any credence, and the Okie lawyer who cried wolf too often finally took a hint from the State Bar of Nevada, that she was breaking Nevada law by billing for legal fees for work done in Nevada without holding a Nevada Bar license, so she shut up and left town.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:04 AM PT
I admit I was referring to hearsay and cannot independently confirm any of the allegations.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:31 AM PT
CORRECTION: Having said that, and to up the ante on hyperbole, many voting and electioneering irregularities were noted in the election that might have helped Reid beat Angle.
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:37 AM PT
Why did Sharron Angle lose? A conspiracy! I love it!
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 4:27 AM PT
So Harry Ried didn’t send buses for union workers to vote in mass in Las Vegas for him?
MikeMay 11, 2012 at 4:34 AM PT
Don’t forget Van Jones!
NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:37 AM PT
Even if true… Helping people get to the polls is now cheating?
ScottEMay 11, 2012 at 4:40 AM PT
#GETOFFMYLAWN!!
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:02 AM PT
That is one way of looking at it which is why I bring it up only as a reference. I wasn’t there so I don’t know what lengths and tactics the unions used to G.O.T.V.
NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM PT
I am not saying your father is a neo nazi… I am just saying his hair is pretty short and he doesn’t seem to be fond of minorities. I have no evidence to support this claim but it seems to feel right. Stick with the facts, you look desperate otherwise.
CastaicClayMay 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM PT
So he bused out of towners to the polls and they could vote?
PattyMay 14, 2012 at 1:17 AM PT
Were they not legal voters?
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 4:30 AM PT
The reality was that Nevada’s wealthy, prominent, powerful, sane Republicans know Sharron Angle, and as soon as Mrs. Angle beat her primary opponent (the wife of a retired casino mob associate) the “tasteful people” on the right stampeded into Harry Reid’s camp.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:06 AM PT
That is just as much conjecture as much as the claim of G.O.T.V. improprieties.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:08 AM PT
I think some of the voting irregularity claims were nothing more than a response to teh fact that Angle was polling well ahead of where the final vote came down. http://www.lvrj.com/news/reid-holds-off-challenger-angle-106597348.html
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 6:41 AM PT
Not conjecture Kevin, but fact. See for example this article from Las Vegas’ Republican oriented newspaper, the Las Vegas Review Journal: http://www.lvrj.com/news/46898112.html
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 7:00 AM PT
And some Democrats have supported me in the past. None of the names on that list are nationally recognized figures in the GOP. The most interesting (as in what a couple of boneheads) of this is Station Casinos executives Lorenzo Fertitta and Frank Fertitta III. Stations is now the victim of an all-out assault on their labor policies. A lot of good supporting Harry Reid has been for the Fertitta’s business.
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 7:49 AM PT
Kevin “Nationally recognized figures in the GOP” can’t vote in Nevada. The Republicans who publicly endorsed and voted for Sen. Reid were Nevada’s wealthy, prominent, powerful, pragmatic Republicans including Sig Rogich, the Godfather of Republican political consultants/campaign managers in Nevada. See: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/26/sig-rogich-influential-gop-endorses-reid/ Also see a “Why Angle Lost” article: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/05/nevada-political-climate-evolving/ Also note the Mrs. Angle was predicted to and did lose the precincts in Washoe County, where she sometimes lived. See: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/nevada-election-results-2010 “Given that every significant Reno Republican — including Mayor Bob Cashell (citing Angle’s “wild ideas”) and Ronald Reagan’s RNC chairman Frank Fahrenkopf — has endorsed Reid”
Coastal SageMay 11, 2012 at 8:17 AM PT
P.S. Kevin, the Fertitta Family has been in a unionizing battle with the Culinary Union for about 10 years. Sen. Harry Reid doesn’t control the Culinary Union, nor do they control him. The Fertitta Family are smart enough to know that nobody, including Harry Reid, can get the Culinary Union off their backs. The kinds of business people Sen. Reid pals around with and has as campaign donors don’t like the Culinary Union. The Culinary Union does a lot of wacky stuff, like suing the Democrat-controlled Las Vegas City Council to stop them from building a new city hall, until the Culinary Union got their way, in terms of the city using its “police powers” to force certain casinos to sign union contracts. (Not so brilliant legal reasoning behind that plan.) Of course, that gambit didn’t go very far, given that the new city hall was going to be/is a construction industry union built building. Sharron Angle is a nice lady who worked very hard to get Proposition 13-like measures on the statewide ballot time and time again but always failed. While she may be an interesting speaker on the chicken dinner circuit outside of Nevada, she is not accepted by Nevada’s rich Republican elite who live in Henderson, NV and Summerlin, NV and who make the bulk of the campaign donations to Republican causes in Nevada. For example, after her Senate race, in March 2011 Mrs. announced that she would run for the House seat held by Dean Heller, who was appointed to the Senate when Sen. John Ensign resigned after getting in trouble with the Senate Ethics Committee. Soon afterwards she dropped out of this race when all of the Republican elite anointed Mark Amodei for the House seat. Mrs. Angle made a hysterically funny reputation for herself, on television during the Senate race against Sen. Reid by literally sprinting away from the TV and big city print press every time they got near her, because she didn’t want to be “trapped into having to answer difficult questions.” I can think of at least one California Assembly candidate who appears to be following the same campaign strategy, including the financing of her campaign with out-of-state money, just like Mrs. Angle did.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:31 AM PT
Mike: Why do you hate Conservative women so much?
mikeMay 11, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT
Listen, no one cares more about the plight of Pepper Parkinson than I.
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 3:46 AM PT
Mike, I would not go as far as to say that I believe the election was stolen. Just that their was some funky union activity and other irregularities that may have affected the vote. The fact of the matter is that incumbency is a very powerful election tool and being the leader of the Senate didn’t hurt Reid either.
NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:06 AM PT
I am not saying your mother is a whore…
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 5:00 AM PT
This is where I say, “I know you are but what am I?”
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 6:25 AM PT
Oh you forgot, “I’m rubber, you’re glue, bounces off me and sticks to you!”
kkorenthalMay 11, 2012 at 6:56 AM PT
That was implied.
Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 10:33 AM PT
Oh cool
Cheryl PhillipsMay 12, 2012 at 12:34 AM PT
Why are we talking here about Nevada politics? Angle/Reid – over months ago.
Coastal SageMay 12, 2012 at 3:56 AM PT
Cheryl, Kevin Korenthal started the conversation by saying that one should never compare Patti McKeon to the saintly Sharron Angle. To my eye, their campaigns were/are being managed in the same way. Sprinting away from reporters and voters who might ask tough questions.
BertaMay 11, 2012 at 4:20 AM PT
I have to disagree with the nastier comments regarding Sharon Angle. As a Decline to State non partisan voter I had the opportunity to meet her, had a lengthily one on one conversation with her, and found her intelligent, articulate, pleasant, and not at all what I had been led to believe so I am thankful I kept an open mind. I also received the Pat McKeon/Antonovich robo call as well as one from some self-identified Mexican legal rights group touting Superior Court Judge Candidate Berj Parseghian. Thanks for the call guys since I knew nothing about him but if you are backing him that would be a big NO vote from me.
NateMay 11, 2012 at 4:33 AM PT
Charisma covers a multitude of crazy for Berta
BertaMay 11, 2012 at 5:09 AM PT
Nate unlike some of you, I am sensitive to the fact that there are many folks with biologically based brain diseases who struggle every day just to get through the day with some level of normalcy. I understand the issues so called “crazy” folks deal with, so I do not further stigmatize people by misusing the term. Nor do I formulate my opinions based upon on what folks like you say either.
Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 11:43 PM PT
Nate suffers from “Charisma Envy”.
NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:44 AM PT
So you are saying Sharon Angle has some sort of brain disease?
BertaMay 14, 2012 at 2:06 AM PT
No Nate, I am saying your words are insensitive and further stigmatize folks who genuinely have biologically based brain diseases in your efforts to discredit and insult folks you simply disagree with. You and others call people “crazy” a lot when you do not get your way. You have also said that folks are “off their meds” including to me, implying the same thing. I am suggesting that perhaps you could try arguing your point, if you have one, without bringing a medical diagnosis into the conversation, which you are not qualified to make.
NateMay 15, 2012 at 3:54 AM PT
HAHAHA Berta is the P.C. police… now “Crazy” is a insensitive term! Where are all the el Rushbo fan to pile on Berta for helping ruining America.
Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 5:44 AM PT
If they support Buck you can feed them Kool-Aid, they’re used to it.
Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 6:33 AM PT
Why do librarians care about Buck?
RemStarMay 11, 2012 at 7:07 AM PT
Impredict that in 2016 Mike Antonovich will run his unqualified wife to replace him as County Supervisor. I further predict that Buck McKeon will endorse Mrs. Antonovich.
ToddMay 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM PT
I know where you’re going… but I don’t think we have to worry about that… Last I understood, she’s a Chinese National, not eligible to be elected to office in the US.
Capt. GeneMay 11, 2012 at 11:48 PM PT
Yet.
Crazy DudeMay 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM PT
You nailed it Mr. Jef, our soldiers are criminals.
Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 10:35 AM PT
Ladies and gentlemen, introducing either the most facetious man in the SCV or the biggest $hitstick this side of the Mississippi.
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 12:28 PM PT
Jeff: I only insinuated that because Bill insinuated that following well-established rules of war was for weak sissies. He all but praised West for doing what he did, calling him a “tough guy.” What other conclusion should I have drawn given some of the minority of abuses that have occurred in the last 10 years? @Jeff: That’s your assumption. West is a tough guy, who would you have fighting wars? Wimps like Hanoi John F’n Kerry who lied about Vietnam soldiers!? Now here you go again whining about US Soldier misconduct while Jihadist randomly kill civilians, cut off heads, slam airplane’s into our buildings, etc. C’mon man…
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 12:57 PM PT
Regardless the conduct of the enemy, we as an American fighting force do not alter how we operate nor lower ourselves to their standards. When you do that you have lost the moral upperhand.
MrPerezMay 11, 2012 at 1:40 PM PT
Here you go Bill, Army Field Manual 6-22, Chapter 4-1: “On the morning of 28 February 1991, about a half-hour prior to the cease-fire, a T-55 tank pulled up in front of a U.S Bradley unit, which immediately prepared to engage with TOW missiles. A vehicle section consisting of the platoon sergeant and his wingman tracked the Iraqi tank, ready to unleash two deadly shots. Suddenly, the wingman saw the T-55 tank stop and a head popped up from the commander’s cupola. The wingman immediately radioed to his platoon sergeant to hold his fire, believing that the Iraqi was about to dismount the vehicle, possibly to surrender. The Iraqi tank crew jumped off their vehicle and ran behind a sand dune. Sensing something was not right, the platoon sergeant immediately instructed his wingman to investigate the area around a nearby dune, while he provided cover with his weapons. To everyone’s surprise, the wingman and his crew soon discovered 150 enemy combatants ready to surrender. To deal with this vast number of prisoners, the American unit lined them up and ran them through a gauntlet to disarm them and check them for items of intelligence value. Then the unit called for prisoner of war handlers to pick them up. Before moving on, the platoon sergeant had to destroy the T-55 tank. Before blowing it in place, the NCO instructed it moved behind a sand berm to protect his people and the prisoners from the shrapnel of the tank’s on-board munitions. When the tank suddenly exploded and the small arms cooked-off, sounding as if small arms were fired, the prisoners panicked, believing the Soldiers would shoot them. Quickly, the Soldiers communicated that this would not happen, one of them telling the Iraqis, “Hey, we’re from America, we don’t shoot our prisoners!” This story is illustrated as an example of Army Values in action, not “being PC” causing wars to stretch on and on.
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 2:12 PM PT
Tell that to FDR who placed US civilians in isolated camps. Now a days we insanely have Afgans pulling security for our troops and they’re randomly shooting our soldiers. Please don’t get high and mighty about combat situations…
Mr PerezMay 11, 2012 at 2:50 PM PT
Bill, using WW2 examples and decisions by our civilian leaders does not detract from the fact we operate on standards and values. I’m sorry you feel that today’s Army sucks compared to what it was during your time.
PetzMay 11, 2012 at 9:03 PM PT
I am reading a book “Soldiers Heart” by an Ivy League educated English teacher at West Point. She contiually talks about the atrocities of Abu Ghrab and Gitmo. Furthermore she talks about how Army ethicists at West Point share her opinion. The book was written in 2007 and I wonder what she would say now. Petz says you prosecute a war to win it or you go home. You protect and cover your soldiers first.
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 10:20 PM PT
Right o Petz… I agree 100%!
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM PT
Including ones who go and blow away 13 sleeping Afghans? I mean seriously?
BertaMay 12, 2012 at 1:36 AM PT
Jeff because one of our soldiers allegedly commits a heinous crime does not make all of our soldiers murders. He may have simply snapped after several tours of duty. We will not know until the details come out at trial. In any event, our soldier will be tried and if found guilty punished. If the situation were reversed and an Afghan soldier had killed that many of ours, he would be lauded as a hero with parades through the streets, so while I do not condone killing innocent civilians, if that is in fact what they were, I do try to keep things in perspective, this is a war and unfortunate things do happen during such trying times. I do however agree with Petz. If we are going to spend blood and treasure on any war, we should be in it to win, have an executable plan, and protect our personnel to the maximum degree possible. No Afghan supposed “allies” should be in a position of trust able to kill our unarmed soldiers as happened with Rudy Acosta, NONE.
PetzMay 12, 2012 at 1:50 AM PT
Sometimes you think there is hope for Jeff,, and sometimes you want to smack him.
Mr PerezMay 12, 2012 at 2:29 PM PT
Petz,you always protect your troops first but are you insinuating that if a violation of the UCMJ is done that the person isn’t prosecuted?
Bill ReynoldsMay 11, 2012 at 10:19 PM PT
There you go again making silly accusations. During my time politicians also tied one hand behind our backs, but at least we handled our own base camp security rather than rely on local militia. You know that makes no sense.
JeffMay 11, 2012 at 11:29 PM PT
Blame Rumsfeld. He overturned the Powell Doctrine and sought to outsource as much of the Army’s traditional functions as possible, including security. How would you have liked it if in Vietnam you were working alongside private contractors making 4x what you were? I’ve talked to some soldiers and they resent it.
Mr PerezMay 12, 2012 at 2:35 PM PT
Jeff, we were short quite a few troops thanks to downsizing from the Clinton era and it also didn’t help when you had ppl actively working against the recruiters. American Contractors filled some of the voids but I never felt jealous since I’m a Soldier, not a mercenary.
Mr PerezMay 12, 2012 at 2:27 PM PT
First off Bill, I didn’t get high and mighty about anything. I simply copied and pasted a small portion of Army leadership training for you. Leadership is of the upmost importance given our current optempo and especially so to a career leader such as myself. Without it you have anarchy and people commiting acts like making ear necklaces or torching villages, something unnacceptable in a professional, disciplined Army. I won’t /can’t comment on the contractor issue but know that I always watched my 6 and those around me whenever around civilians of another nation, nuff said.
MikeMay 12, 2012 at 3:22 PM PT
Perez schools Reynolds. Every time.
Bill ReynoldsMay 12, 2012 at 10:34 PM PT
Good luck on that one Mike. Perez, your response is rather weak; every Army has its share of rogue soldiers who go off the reservation and are dealt with. Left wingers will have you believe its the norm… and, and and it’s Bush’s fault. Hello Jeff.
Mr PerezMay 13, 2012 at 6:46 AM PT
Not attempting to school you Bill but definately attempting to educate you on how differently someone views things who comes into the military for a few years and someone who makes it a profession of arms. I understand whole heartidly that any abuses and crimes are few and far between. None the less they aren’t acceptable. From the original comment I don’t believe Congressman West committed an abuse but rather a minor violation of the ROE and UCMJ. With that being said, one should be contrite after an error.
Bill ReynoldsMay 14, 2012 at 1:57 AM PT
Agreed…
Mr PerezMay 13, 2012 at 7:16 AM PT
And if you look Bill, I said what you did about it being a rogue occurrence as opposed to the norm, like 2-3x beforr you did. We seem to be agreeing on most things but I’m getting the feeling you’re trying to be the Alpha dog as opposed to seeing this. My main point of contention was how you say we are too busy fighting wars politically correct, and I’m trying to show you the standards have been almost the same from the get go and its a structure and system we created to ensure we fight ethically and morally. What do you consider PC or what shouldn’t be prosecuted in a war zone?
Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 2:36 PM PT
Carpet bombing wins wars.
JeffMay 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM PT
You were there, did Operation Linebacker & Rolling Thunder win Vietnam for us? Asking in all sincerity
NateMay 14, 2012 at 12:50 AM PT
“Carpet bombing wins wars.” ~Hitler “Bring it punk.” ~Winston Churchill
MrPerezMay 14, 2012 at 1:39 AM PT
Carpet bombing? Seriously? Next you’re going to suggest we start riding horses around instead of motorized vehicles lol. I understand it’s been a while since you’ve been in the Army but we have these things called precision munitions, and I can laze in on a target and have either an artillery round, Hellfire missile, or a JDAM take out anything I need to. If I want mass coverage, I can use an MLRS and have an entire grid square covered. But Carpet Bombing is both antiquidated and involves innocent casualties. In WW2 alone, there are over 580,000 innocent civilian deaths in a 9 month period.
Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 12:38 AM PT
Yeah, and we don’t fight wars for victory anymore do we?
MikeMay 13, 2012 at 2:09 AM PT
“I ask, ’cause I’m not sure. Does anybody make real shit anymore?” -West
Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 10:35 PM PT
Jeff wrote: You were there, did Operation Linebacker & Rolling Thunder win Vietnam for us? Asking in all sincerity. @Jeff: First, I doubt your sincerity, but here’s what happened in a nutshell. LBJ provoked Ho Chi Minh using secret CIA operatives to blow up bridges, etc, which caused the Gulf of Tonkin incident (1964), which in turn gave LBJ a “reason” to start full blown warfare against Uncle Ho. Later, during the 1968 Tet offensive, a colossal loss for the NVA, Cronkite suggested LBJ find a way out of the war because we were losing – that was an outright lie – LBJ immediately chose to NOT run for re-election and to begin negotiating for peace. Politicians gave up. I’ll get you a documenatry if you like. }
Mr PerezMay 14, 2012 at 3:27 AM PT
Not only did politicians give up but a lot of civilians lost perspective and treated the troops like trash. Total dishonor on their part.
IHeartSCVMay 11, 2012 at 1:22 PM PT
Speaking of robocalls for assembly, a Tom McClintock robocall went out on behalf of Scott Wilk tonight. Apparently, he’s the only “true conservative” and he’s willing to stand up to “special interests”; it seems McClintock is unfamiliar with Wilk’s past.
PetzMay 11, 2012 at 8:49 PM PT
Disappointed in the last post by Iheart SCV…..Scott Wilk has a history of taking unpopular positions of the COC board. A real cheap shot and Petz is calling you out.
IHeartSCVMay 12, 2012 at 2:23 AM PT
Petz, I don’t see how Wilk is supposed to stand up againsts “special interests” when much of his previous work involved selling his influence to whatever special interest paid for it. I’ve linked to this before–it’s a few years old but a helpful summary, nonetheless. http://media.morristechnology.com/mediafilesvr/upload/santa_clarita/singlepdfs/51-Aug08-Web_18.pdf Wilk worked to pass a $160M bond to pay for COC construction; he worked to pass the open space tax initiative; there was another school bond request; and he was one of the leaders opposing power towers being built in Belcaro while promoting building medical office buildings at Newhall Memorial (arguing to save views/quality of life in one community while promoting the opposite in another). Which of those projects strikes you as particularly conservative…or consistent? He knows more than Patricia McKeon, but that’s about all I can say. And Petz, stop taking cheap shots against punctuation: ellipses only have three stops, not five [...] vs. [.....].
PetzMay 12, 2012 at 3:19 AM PT
Ok, we can agree that Wilk is an effective advocate.
mikeMay 12, 2012 at 4:01 AM PT
Don’t stop there. Petz also prefers the French-style space before exclamation points.
AdamMay 12, 2012 at 2:06 PM PT
iHeart I think someone else noted this before, but On those initiatives Wilk was a paid consultant. Arguing for his employers. Sometimes, in almost any line of work, you end up coming across issues that may be unpopular that you have to support because it’s your job. I know in my job, we take on clients that I don’t always agree with ideologically, but I still will work to give them the best service possible. Scott is the type of person who will fight for causes he believes in too. Take his (unpaid volunteer time) work on the redistricting last year. It is largely because of him that Santa Clarita is for the most part in 1 Assembly District, 1 Congressional, and the same 2 Senate districts as before. Thats a cause he believed in and fought for. I’ve known him for 20 years and I know he’ll be the type of guy who votes his conscience and what he thinks is best, bit based on who gives him the most campaign dollars.
AdamMay 12, 2012 at 2:07 PM PT
***not based on who gives him the most campaign dollars.
IHeartSCVMay 13, 2012 at 3:04 AM PT
Honestly, Adam, I’d like a better example because the “cause” you’re saying Wilk believed in and fought for was drawing political districts in a way that’s most advantageous for him and his party. How noble and selfless indeed… I also dislike the idea of excusing bad behavior because it’s “part of the job.” That’s compromising one’s principles for money, which is troubling. I’m no idealist, but I think it’s laughable that people defend the causes he has worked for, the attack ads he has run, etc. by saying it was his job. If you think people are really that easily compartmentalized between private and political lives, I think you’re wrong.
Phil EllisMay 14, 2012 at 12:08 AM PT
I read the link and saw nothing negative about Scott. He still has my vote (actually, I already voted for him.)
Cheryl PhillipsMay 12, 2012 at 12:45 AM PT
Great post and interview yesterday with Rogers, Jeff. This is exactly the kind of stuff we need for all our voters to read. God knows we won’t see these kind of questions in TMS. Can’t wait for when you interview, Buck! ya, right.
Coastal SageMay 12, 2012 at 3:40 AM PT
Though I think they’d be afraid to do it, I’d like to see Mrs. McKeon submit to video taped interview by Jeff which could be posted on the internet for all to see. As a candidate for election to public office, if one doesn’t have the level of self-confidence to be interviewed by people who will not toss softball questions, then the candidate doesn’t deserve to be elected. I’ll never forget that interview where Katie Couric asked Sarah Palin what publications Mrs. Palin read. While Mrs. McKeon might be ready with an answer to that question, I bet there are a raft of technical questions about Santa Clarita’s problems which the little lady couldn’t come close to answering. Why must a candidate show that they can survive a tough interview? Because in the Assembly there are a whole lot of smart Assemblymen who will take advantage of a “dumb” Assemblyman from another district, to the detriment of the constituents of the dummy. Santa Claritans never had to worry about Cameron Smyth or Keith Richman being a dummy. One may not have agreed with them, but at least one knew that there were fully functioning brains in their skulls.
Bill ReynoldsMay 12, 2012 at 1:53 AM PT
Jeff says: Blame Rumsfeld. He overturned the Powell Doctrine and sought to outsource as much of the Army’s traditional functions as possible, including security. How would you have liked it if in Vietnam you were working alongside private contractors making 4x what you were? I’ve talked to some soldiers and they resent it. @Jeff: Didn’t Obama run on “Hope & Change”. Hah! Liberals cannot continue blaming Bush and expect rational thinking people to buy into that garbage. BTW, is GITMO still open? BTW, does Obama simply murder people (OBL, etc.) rather capture terrorists for interrogation… waterboarding bad, killing people good. C’mon man.
CastaicClayMay 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM PT
When did the statute of limitations run out on Bush? Ya all still bring up Ray-gun.
Gang FangMay 12, 2012 at 11:47 PM PT
When did Bill start calling everyone “man”?
Bill ReynoldsMay 13, 2012 at 12:40 AM PT
Hey man, mind your own business… man.
NateMay 15, 2012 at 3:59 AM PT
26 straight months of job growth. 22 straight month of economic growth. I can write the commercials myself… do I have to find all the juicy republican sound bits that say they number 1 goal is to make Obama a 1 term pres? Wrong answer the correct answer the american people were looking for was… CREATE JOBS.
PetzMay 12, 2012 at 4:01 AM PT
jeff , just throws that $#@% out for chum.
Bill ReynoldsMay 12, 2012 at 5:03 AM PT
Truly…
PetzMay 12, 2012 at 10:15 PM PT
So while Jeff is blog chumming about a rare war atrocity commited by an American, Rhamani is shot dead by the Taliban and a Green Beret is shot by an Afghan. Jeff never mentions the Muslim persecution of Christians in Islamic countries because #1 he thinks they deserve it -#2 it does not fit his narrative. How about Major Hassan-has he been tried…was that an act of Islamic violence or a work place shooting….?
Mr PerezMay 13, 2012 at 6:50 AM PT
Stop with the reverse chumming Petz and keep in the center away from extremism.