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July 20, 2010· scvtalk.com · WordPress (SCVTalk 3.0) · Wayback capture

City moves to take over, privatize County libraries

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

Was anybody else surprised to see the City of Santa Clarita make a play for the County’s libraries just as the City Council went on its summer recess?

I was. I’ll let Laurie Ender tell the story:

As part of the City’s initial research on the issue, it was noted that under city management, library services could be enhanced without raising taxes or fees.  Some of these enhancements include increasing hours at the Canyon Country Library and the Old Town Newhall Library by nearly 20 percent each (to match the hours at the Valencia Library); increased local control of library services and programs and better tailoring them to the specific needs of area residents; and opening all of the local libraries on Sunday.

There’s a lot to talk about here. First of all, there are two separate issues.

1) Should the City of Santa Clarita take over the three County libraries in Santa Clarita? And 2) How should the City manage the libraries if and when it does take them over?

On the first question, the math seems irrefutable. The City says we’ve been sending $6m+ every year to the County, and they don’t spend all of it here on materials and staff. In fact, last year, some $416,000 went to the County and didn’t come back. The City estimates $14 million in special library and property tax revenue has been lost in this way since 2003.

What can the City of Santa Clarita do with that extra money? Ender and the others say they can expand service hours and programs. More bang for our buck.

So, on its face, it appears to be in our economic interests to take over the libraries.

As to the second question, there is little doubt that the City would privatize the operation of the libraries. They do that in virtually every other service-oriented operation they run (the Transit system, for example, is run by a private corporation).  It’s likely they’ll look to Library Services & Sciences Incorporated,  a Maryland-based for-profit library management company that got its start in the hey-day of Ronald Reagan’s privatization push.

By some accounts, LSSI has saved local library systems from total ruin and failure. The company moves in, usually offering existing librarians a job (albeit it at a lower salary and without a pension), reforms the system, and turns a small profit.

But other LSSI contracts aren’t so clear cut. Library Journal.com reports that when LSSI took over Calabasas’ County library, it launched a volunteer initiative in order to save on personnel costs, cynically using the public’s goodwill to save money on human resources. In Finney Kansas, LSSI took over the library there, decreased staff spending on highly trained MLS librarians by 9% and cut spending on materials too.

And, as the City points out in a FAQ, experienced and trained local librarians -employed by the County- wouldn’t automatically keep their jobs under the City’s new management. They’d have to apply to work for the private corporation, and they’d lose whatever benefits and pension they had under the County system. Either that or they can transfer somewhere else in the LA County system. What a raw deal for the Librarians who live in and have served this community for years.

Whatever the City is planning, it’s obviously been at this for awhile. Shortly after Ender’s article ran, the City launched SantaClaritaLibrary.com, a slick new website devoted solely to selling this idea to the public. It features comparison charts of local library hours before and after the City’s hoped-for takeover. It has a list of articles about library privitization from organizations as diverse as the International City/County Managers Association to the conservative Hudson Institute.

Speaking as someone who still loves libraries and would kill for more hours (especially on Sunday), I’m intrigued by this idea, but I’m not sold. The City’s FAQ leaves a lot to be desired; I don’t think they could guarantee, for instance, that our local libraries would be able to check out materials from other Los Angeles County Libraries. And would the county end library programs at our three libraries? And what’s with the jumbled brainstrom in the last paragraph of the Financials page that says the $25 million budgeted for the new Newhall library could go somewhere else, like a new Valencia public library?

Finally, there’s a matter of trust, but not just any old trust, I’m talking about the public trust. Knowledge, information, literature and education materials belong to the public, to we the people. Libraries are the warehouses of that free information.

I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t trust the City of Santa Clarita more than the County of Los Angeles Public Library just because the City is local. This isn’t like other City/County issues; the LACO Public Library is well-regarded and is overseen by its own board. They run a good system and even when library dollars escape the SCV, they still get spent on other parts of the system.

This should be an interesting debate come August 24, when it will be on the City Council’s Agenda.

Comments (83)

  1. linda staedtlerJuly 20, 2010 at 4:04 pm
    Jeff, I too am not completely sold on the idea. I do agree that the last paragraph in the financial section is confusing. What I got from it, is that they are saying if they use a private company, they will have a surplus of $2.5 million that can be used for start up costs or facility construction. If they choose to use the surplus for the Newhall Library construction, that will free up some of the $25 million already budgeted to the Newhall Library for other redevelopment projects in Newhall. Or they could use the $2.5 million surplus instead towards the construction of a new Valencia library. My main question is would county residents still be able to check out books? I see the FAQ section says they can use the library but doesnt mention the ability to check out books. If it is no, there will be 70,000 residents shut out from checking out books. While I understand the library is in the City, county residents pay the same tax and essentially would have their access eliminated.
  2. WalkerJuly 20, 2010 at 4:17 pm
    My sister is in a similar situation out of state. She is outside of the city limits but uses a city library. As non-residents, they pay a yearly fee to have a library card.
  3. WalkerJuly 20, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    I was thinking of county residents as well. Would they be served entirely by the book mobile? Would county book transfers be offered through the city libraries? If not, would we have access to a county book mobile? I simply can’t see how it would be possible for a small 3 library system to offer the amount of material that is available through the county system.
  4. WalkerJuly 20, 2010 at 4:27 pm
    Read the facts and they say we’ll be able to inter-system transfer. Do they offer this through LACity/County (or other city run library within the county) right now? I wonder if the requests are treated equally or if there is an additional cost to the borrower, and if so what that cost is. If you can’t tell, we do a lot of requesting LOL.
  5. MikeJuly 21, 2010 at 7:53 am
    In almost all cases I have seen, there is a charge for this. $5 per item is common, but LA City charges its users $10 per item PLUS any costs charged by the lending system. I would guess that the $400K “extra” gets eaten up quite quickly in services such as this. I doubt the city did any analysis of those services and limited their analysis to simply how much is spent to keep the doors open locally. There is much more to a library service than hours. The discussion of the $25M that could be repurposed for other things has me wondering if this is really more about the money than the service. That and “keeping up with the Jones” — i.e. everybody else our size does this …
  6. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 8:30 am
    On the question of charges for accessing materials from the collections of other libraries, many libraries in the region charge their patrons nothing or a nominal amount. From the research I’ve done, the breakdown per request is: 4 charge nothing; 1 charges $0.50; 1 charges $0.75; 6 charge $1.00; 1 charges $1.20; 1 charges $1.50; 10 charge $2.00; 7 charge $3.00; 6 charge $5.00; and 2 charge $10.00. Many libraries do have a charge for materials that are ordered but not picked up and for materials that are not returned on time. We have not developed a library fee schedule because Council has not yet decided whether to operate the City’s libraries. We would likely not charge for borrowing items from the LA County Public Library in order to maintain the current level of borrowing services available to our residents.
  7. PetzJuly 20, 2010 at 4:25 pm
    It is too bad that money is being wasted on brick and mortar libraries in the age of Kindle. Time has passed the warehouse concept by, and government is slow to adapt.
  8. IHeartSCVJuly 20, 2010 at 5:46 pm
    Not every book is Kindle-able–nice photography books, very large volumes, obscure and out-of-print titles (e.g., “Santa Clarita: Valley of the Golden Dream”), for some. Then there’s that whole idea of a library as a place to sit and read/study/do work (as opposed to a coffee shop, which is a place where people sit and pretend to read/study/do work). So I don’t think libraries have quite outlived their usefulness just yet.
  9. GangFangJuly 21, 2010 at 7:42 am
    Very very few kids and teens use Kindle or something similar. Doing away with brick and mortar libraries would be a massive disaster. Some libraries have started using Kindles and the like, but most go unused and ignored. Books are still where it’s at.
  10. Sean "1978" MorrisseyJuly 20, 2010 at 4:26 pm
    Most libraries have options for those who are not in the area the city run library serves. I have a Fullerton Library card that I use with no prolems. I really hope if this happens, they do now contract the running of the system. Make it city run!
  11. SteveTJuly 20, 2010 at 4:33 pm
    I love the Valencia library and have used it for years. The most important asset it brings (IMHO) is access to the entire network of LA County books and its great computer access ordering system. From any computer you can go online, search and find books you’d like anywhere in the LA County system, order them, and have them delivered to the Valencia Library. You get informed when the book is in, you go pick it up. It’s an amazing and great system. If they lost access to the LA County inventory of books and its great online access system, it wouldn’t be worth it IMHO. The key resource is not the hours its open, its the depth of the catalogue it offers.
  12. sterling kingJuly 20, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    Any bets on the person whose name will hang on the wall of the new Newhall Library? I think it should be Hugo chavez… ?
  13. Silence DogoodJuly 22, 2010 at 6:37 am
    I’m guessing that Mayor Weste wants it named after her, given the time she spent specifying the detail of the entry doors during City Council time. When did we change our cultural norm from naming things after honored and accomplished dead people, towards living politicians in order to boost their egos?
  14. Silence DogoodJuly 22, 2010 at 3:44 pm
    How about the Wm. S. Hart Memorial Library?
  15. AndyJuly 20, 2010 at 5:26 pm
    I don’t think they should privatize the current libraries…maybe new ones…Newhall Ranch say what? :/ Otherwise they will be taking a lot away from the employees at the existing libraries.
  16. Elaine B.July 20, 2010 at 5:33 pm
    NO, no, no you will NOT be allowed to freely order books from L.A. County if the City is successful with this hostile takeover. Yes, you can inter-library loan, but it’s for a fee. The Temecula library was taken over (i.e., privatized) by LSSI–and loans are $5 EACH!! So what you see on the shelves is what you get. And the dedicated employees will be gone, too. LSSI makes $ by eliminating staff and resources. They depend on volunteers. Remember that when you call to request a book or make computer appointment. Those days will be gone. And as for other cities being able to use the library (actually, the City said people “can go” to the library), yes they can, but not check out books. There will be a fee. (Hey, you don’t contribute, you don’t share). You’ll notice the City did not put the library issue on their main web page; they hid it under another link. And it’s filled with propaganda. Which should make everyone in this City suspicious. Too much going on behind closed doors. Yes, our tax money leaves the valley, but look at all the services it brings: you have access to over 7 million County books, brought right to your local branch with no charge. The City will never be able to match that.
  17. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 8:32 am
    See my response on the question of accessing collections from other libraries posted above.
  18. RemStarJuly 20, 2010 at 6:46 pm
    It doesn’t look like the city would be taking over county libraries, it looks like the city would be taking over city libraries the city built and paid for. If we’re part of the LA County library, why isn’t the county pay to build our libraries? Other than police and fire, I’m fine with the private sector providing services, especially when it means you get more for the same (or less). I get water from Valencia Water Company which is private, no problems there. To get to work I take a Santa Clarita bus and transfer to a LA bus. Our buses are cleaner, in better shape and run on time better than LA’s. That is a great example of the difference between private and public, so I don’t understand why you run our city buses down when they are pretty good. You are consistent, though – for you government employees are all the rave and private employees are somehow always bad. But I don’t see a push for big government brewing here in conservative Santa Clarita.
  19. linda staedtlerJuly 20, 2010 at 8:29 pm
    Valencia Library was built by the County. No city funds were every used. My issue is that if the City took over the libraries, county residents will be left with no to minimal service. This isnt an issue of the City providing a service and not recouping the cost through use of county residents. Every county resident pays the same library tax. If the City takes over the libraries, County residents will still pay the tax and yet will have services eliminated. From the sounds of others, while contracting might be cheaper, services are not necessarily better and are more limiting.
  20. LaurieJuly 20, 2010 at 8:10 pm
    I’ll be moving to Santa Clarita next month from the South Bay. I’m a writer and one of the things I was happy to see was that the Santa Clarita area was serviced by the County Library system. I need to research obscure subjects on occasion and as such, I take heavy advantage of the computer access ordering system. I’m dismayed by this news, to say the least, and will be keeping a close eye on the issue. Not a good way to start in an area to find out that I may not have the easy access I thought I’d be having to the inventory of books I need, and/or I may have to pay to borrow a book.
  21. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 4:25 am
    Hi, I’m Darren Hernandez, Deputy City Manager, and I’d like to fill in the gaps on some of the comments and questions mentioned above. Here is our goal for Santa Clarita libraries: more days, longer hours and more books. We want service of the highest professional quality and we want special programs tailored to the needs of our community (in other words, as good as or better than the services currently provided, and in no way less in level or quality than currently enjoyed). The City paid for, built and owns the Canyon Country library. The City is paying to build and will own the Old Town Newhall library. So the issue is really whether the City will operate the City’s libraries (although the City would have to acquire the Valencia library from the county). Once Council decides whether to operate the libraries it will then determine how the library services will be provided. In terms of the financial analysis, under either operating scenario the City would: open the Canyon Country and Newhall libraries on Sunday; keep the Canyon Country and Newhall libraries open until 9 PM on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday; and, increase the annual budget for books by 22% (from $450,000 to $550,000). The City would implement these expanded library services at a time when other library systems, including the LA County Public Library, are cutting their library budgets. The last paragraph of the financial section that Jeff mentioned is to show examples of what could be done within the financial means available under City operation. By using library funds to build the Old Town Newhall library we could use redevelopment funds for more improvements to Old Town Newhall. Or, instead, the other possibilities mentioned could be done. These facility financing options are in addition to opening libraries on more days, keeping the libraries open longer hours, and increasing the budget to buy more books. Access to collections is important and would be continued through participation in a cooperative such as the Southern California Library Cooperative (SCLC). As a member of SCLC, the City of Santa Clarita libraries would have direct access to items in the Los Angeles County Public Library collection, the City of Los Angeles Public Library collection, the Orange County Public Library collection, and the collections of the other library members of SCLC . Membership in a cooperative such as SCLC provides libraries with access to collections with over 10 million volumes. Santa Clarita library staff would borrow a title from whichever library can provide it the quickest, so residents placing orders will get materials without delay. From the SCLC website: “SCLC is an association of 45 independent city and special district public libraries which have agreed to cooperate in providing library service to the residents of all participating jurisdictions. SCLC provides member libraries a resource-sharing network and a means for enhancing the level and diversity of resources available to library users, while reducing duplication of effort. SCLC members extend, on an equal basis, loan privileges to residents of other member libraries. The SCLS Reference Center provides a vital link for reference referral to members, enabling them to provide answers to difficult questions without purchasing the range of expensive resources required for in-depth research. And the System’s delivery service links members for quick transfer of materials and enhanced sharing of resources.” The SCLS member libraries are: Alhambra Public Library. Altadena Library District, Anaheim Public Library, Arcadia Public Library, Azusa City Library, Beverly Hills Public Library, Buena Park Library District, Burbank Public Library, Cerritos Library, City of Calabasas Library, City of Commerce Public Library, County of Los Angeles Public Library, Covina Public Library, Downey City Library, El Segundo Public Library, Fullerton Public Library, Glendale Public Library, Glendora Library, Inglewood Public Library, Irwindale Public Library, Long Beach Public Library, City of Los Angeles Public Library, Mission Viejo Library, Monrovia Public Library, Monterey Park Bruggemeyer Library, Moorpark City Library, Newport Beach Public Library, Orange County Public Library, City of Orange Public Library, Oxnard Public Library, Palmdale City Library, Palos Verdes Library District, Pasadena Public Library, Placentia Library District, Pomona Public Library, Redondo Beach Public Library, San Marino Public Library, Santa Fe Springs City Library, Santa Monica Public Library, Sierra Madre Library, Signal Hill Public Library, South Pasadena Public Library, Thousand Oaks Library System, Torrance Public Library, Ventura County Public Library, Whittier Public Library, Yorba Linda Public Library. Finally, regarding serving areas outside the City, if the City Council decides to operate the City’s libraries we would work with Los Angeles County to reach an agreement to ensure that residents of unincorporated Santa Clarita can use City libraries.
  22. Linda StaedtlerJuly 21, 2010 at 6:17 am
    Thanks Darren Hernandez for taking the time to respond and trying to clear up some of the issues raised on the board.
  23. WalkerJuly 21, 2010 at 7:36 am
    Will there be an additional charge for inter system transfers? I see that we will get our requests from which ever system is able to lend the materials fastest, will our requests be given the same priority in another system or will our requests go behind the requests of that systems borrowers? Will there be an additional fee for these transfers? To the city or the borrower or both? Is it true that a new private operation would rely heavily on volunteer staff? Would current staff be offered (the opportunity to apply for) positions at compensation similar to what they currently have? Can you elaborate the type of agreement that might be reached in regards to unincorporated areas. Would it be possible/beneficial to acquire only the city owned facilities (CC and Newhall) and leave the Valencia library in the county system?
  24. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 8:57 am
    See my response posted above on the issue of accessing collections from other libraries. On the issue of volunteers, many libraries use volunteers (we even have volunteers who help on frequently here at City Hall); however, whether the services are provided by City employees or by contract, we would provide a high level of quality service without needing to rely upon the use of volunteers. Volunteers would therefore provide added value to our libraries. Yes, current staff would be encouraged to apply for positions should the City assume operation of the City’s libraries. As with our current employees, any new employee would need to go through our rigorous hiring process. In determining the estimated cost for the City to manage the City’s libraries, we took into consideration the average salary ranges for library staff in California and the salary ranges for library staff of the LA County Library. While our actual salaries would have to be set by the City Council if they decide to assume operation of the City’s libraries, we typically set our salaries at the average of our comparable cities (to ensure we are competitive in terms of recruitment and retention of City employees). I can’t elaborate on the possible terms/conditions of any agreements with LA County because such discussion would occur only after the City Council decision on whether to operate the City’s libraries. The City would not have to acquire the Canyon Country library or the libary being built in Old Town Newhall because the City already owns the Canyon Country library and will own the Old Town Newhall library. No, it would not be possible for the City to withdraw from the LA County Library and leave the Valencia library as part of the LA County Library system. The goal of the City is to open our libraries on more days, to keep them open for longer hours, to increase the budget to buy more books, to provide the same access to collections and to staff the libraries with employees capable of providing at least the same level of library services.
  25. WalkerJuly 21, 2010 at 9:18 am
    I read the responses regarding inter system transfer fees. I assume that the city system will charge as little as possible for the transfers in an effort to keep the peace, but I’m curious to know what the fee is (to the library) for the transfer and if the associated costs that will not be passed on to the borrow are included in the budget projections. I’m really concerned that it seems as though the city might be willing to operate the library system without regard for our unincorporated SCV neighbors. Are you honestly saying that the city would vote to take operation of the local library system without a plan in place for our unincorporated neighbors? What if the agreement with the county is unacceptable? What then will the city do to restore reasonable services to those areas? That doesn’t seem like a very thoughtful approach to a ‘One Valley’ situation.
  26. MikeJuly 21, 2010 at 8:12 am
    You say nothing of the fees that will be charged for these “loan privileges.” Unless that lending (including delivery to the local branch) does not incur a fee for library patrons, you will fail in one of your primary goals — more books. You will be providing us with a smaller library. We will have more time to go inside and look at fewer books.
  27. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 8:58 am
    Please see my response posted above on the issue of accessing collections from other libraries.
  28. KellyJuly 21, 2010 at 6:41 am
    I have been a long time patron of our SCV libraries and call the current Newhall Library, “The Little Library That Could” because of the helpfulness and friendliness of the staff, plus the access to the LA County Library System catalog. How will this impact the Valencia Library, a county built facility? I hope City Council puts as much energy into making our streets safer as they will into this issue.
  29. derrickJuly 21, 2010 at 7:42 am
    Based on the library site, the City would purchase the Valencia Library at market value to become a city-owned library. Walker: You ask good questions in which the library site and Mr. Hernandez have answered to the best of their ability. I think at this time, all the details aren’t worked out yet, so it still up in the air.
  30. WalkerJuly 21, 2010 at 8:09 am
    If they can’t answer simple questions regarding the costs associated with services they plan to offer, compensation for their new employees, the level at which they will rely on volunteers, or a realistic picture of what library services will look like for our tens of thousands of unincorporated neighbors, someone has put the cart before the horse and should probably go back and do their homework before they come out swinging. I’m guessing (hoping) they have explored these issues and know the answers which are either too unpopular to publicize or they simply haven’t been asked (until now ) so they haven’t shared. Let’s hope Darren comes back with some clarification. I would love a *better* library system, I’m just not convinced the cities version of a better system (which seems to focus on hours) is my vision of a better system.
  31. ToddJuly 21, 2010 at 12:48 pm
    From what I can gather from the SCLC site, each member has their own fees for various items, and they set their fees. So my assumption is, as a Santa Clarita resident, if I were to borrow something that is in Glendale’s collection, and the Glendale fee is $1.00, I would pay $1.00. I cannot find anywhere that the other members charge a fee to use the service, and no fees are listed as charged by the service itself. I’m certain that the City would pay an administrative membership fee to belong, but that would of relatively little impact. However, thats all speculation on my part… based on what I could find. ( http://www.socallibraries.org/fees ) That being said, if the plan is to outsource the library staff, I oppose that idea. Creating a library department that is vested in the community’s interest, and not the shareholders’ interests is the right way to go.
  32. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 9:00 am
    Kelly, the City would purchase the Valencia Library from the County at fair market value.
  33. MikeJuly 21, 2010 at 9:37 am
    For the Darren Hernandez: How will the success of this venture be determined? What is the recourse when it fails? Can the city rejoin the county system? If so, at what cost?
  34. ElaineJuly 21, 2010 at 10:38 am
    I notice Darren did not address the issue of the City creating an “alternate” web site. Why isn’t the library info on the regular City website? Or at least a link to it?
  35. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 7:53 pm
    Elaine, the City of Santa Clarita has a number of specialized websites for a variety of different events and issues. In addition to santa-clarita.com, our other websites include: thinksantaclarita.com, filmsantaclarita.com, greensantaclarita.com, santaclaritatransit.com, cowboyfestival.org, scmarathon.org, greensantaclarita.com, visitsantaclarita.com, santaclaritacitybriefs.com, scenterprisezone.com, santaclaritaenterprisezone.com, scvsheriff.com, santaclaritaopenspace.com. Yes, there is a link on santa-clarita.com to santaclaritalibrary.com.
  36. ElaineJuly 21, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    You say you want “employees capable of providing at least the same level of library services.” But how do you do that when LSSI won’t hire librarians? They save $ by hiring only para-professionals.
  37. Darren HernandezJuly 21, 2010 at 8:06 pm
    Elaine, no decision has been made to choose contracting for library services rather than using City employees. However, I do want to clarify that it is incorrect to say that LSSI only hires para-professionals and does not hire professional librarians. In recent years I’ve visited several public libraries operated by LSSI and the staff I met was well educated and professional.
  38. WalkerJuly 22, 2010 at 9:37 am
    Being well educated and professional does not make you a librarian LOL. I’m not familiar with the LSSI system and I’m curious to know if in fact LSSI will employee librarians, ie persons an MLS, or will they replace our librarians with ‘well educated and professional’ clerks.
  39. ElaineJuly 22, 2010 at 5:47 am
    What does “well educated” and “professional” mean? Did these people have MLIS degrees?
  40. derrickJuly 22, 2010 at 8:20 am
    Elaine: I’m not speaking for the City but since it would be a contract, the City most likely has the ability to require a certain number of employees to have a degree in MLIS or any other conditions they would like to place.
  41. Margaret Donnellan ToddJuly 22, 2010 at 8:07 am
    I’ve been following the comments and I want to correct a few misunderstandings about county library service. Access: Having been the Director of a City Library I can assure the residents of Santa Clarita that you will not have the same access to the county’s 7 million titles by simply joining the Southern California Library Cooperative. As part of the County Library, you have an absolute right to request books in our catalog regardless of where the books, DVDs etc are housed. As a member of SCLC you have no absolute right to borrow from other libraries- you can only request. If that book is available it will be sent but member libraries will fill their residents needs’ first and sometimes block titles from interlibrary loan. Did you know that the State funds cooperative library systems like SCLC? If State funding disappears, this interlibrary loan service might disappear as well. Can you depend on State funding? What about access to the county’s incredible services for children and teens? What about access to the County’s ever increasing array of 21st century electronic resources? You will not have access to Live Homework Help, databases, electronic books etc. Funding Is your library funding protected? As a County Library, by law, the Board of Supervisors cannot use the Library’s property tax revenue for anything but the Library. That is not true for city libraries. If you leave County service, the property tax coming to the City will be part of the City’s general fund. That means that the City is not obligated to use it for library service. City libraries have to compete for funding with other city services including police. While today’s Council seems committed to using that revenue for libraries no one can speak for future Councils. I also want to correct the City’s misunderstanding regarding library revenue. The County Library uses all revenue that comes from the residents of the City to support library service in the City. In fact, in the past few years, our planning staff and senior administrative staff have invested over $400,000 of their time in planning and implementing the renovation of the Valencia Library, the expansion of Canyon Country and the new Newhall Library. Those costs were never recorded on the City’s cost of service reports because we believed improving those libraries benefited the entire system. Quality Service I keep hearing the word efficiency. Efficient can mean many things. The goal at the County Library is to provide outstanding innovative service. Efficiency is part of delivering outstanding service such as the introduction of self serve check out, but efficiency alone is not the sole measure of success for the County Library. Quality and community centered service is our guiding principal. The City keeps saying they can provide more open hours. Open hours are important but library service in the 21st century is so much more than open hours.
  42. WalkerJuly 22, 2010 at 10:37 am
    Thank you! I hope Darren comes back and addresses your post, and I hope the council is hearing our message!
  43. Christie LJuly 22, 2010 at 3:13 pm
    Yeah, Darren. I’d like to hear your response as well. Seems you neglected to us a few things….especially the City’s lack of obligation to fund the libraries.
  44. Christie LJuly 22, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    I sure hope Ms. Todd will be at the City council meeting. I think there’s going to be a near riot.
  45. E. Kylie AnneJuly 22, 2010 at 8:21 am
    Darren–you said you hadn’t chosen who will run the library. It sounds like the Aug 24 council meeting will be a dog-and-pony show. Like, maybe, you’ve already decided you’re going to do what you want, in spite of what the residents tell you. And the comments are telling you that we do NOT want you taking over our libraries. We LOVE our libraries just as they are; we get great service, my kids love storytime, and I’m happy with the hours. Doesn’t the City have something better to poke around in? Sounds like we should find out at the library how to run a recall campaign. You know, we put you in office to serve us, and we can take you right back out. In spite of all the developer “contributions.”
  46. WalkerJuly 22, 2010 at 9:32 am
    Word.
  47. LindaJuly 22, 2010 at 10:01 am
    Recall campaigns only work on elected officials. Employees of any govt. agency cant be recalled.
  48. WalkerJuly 22, 2010 at 10:32 am
    I think the recall comment was focused at the council members voting to take control of the library system, not at Darren At any rate, I think the kicker of her (his?) post was “Doesn’t the City have something better to poke around in?”
  49. LindaJuly 22, 2010 at 2:46 pm
    Walker…my bad. I don’t fault the City into looking at the possibility of taking over libraries. However based on the comments on this board, good performance at our libraries, and some information that the County librarian has shed, I don’t think this is the time for the City to take over the library. I haven’t heard one person complain about the service or quality at our 3 local branches. Why take something over if its working. I appreciate the City investing into the Canyon Country and Newhall Libraries though.
  50. Christie LJuly 22, 2010 at 8:52 am
    It seems that there has been a LOT of investigating this library takeover behind our backs. You might have asked us FIRST what we want. I have no doubt from your comments that you would choose to have a private company (LSSI?) take over, since it’s cheaper (and isn’t that your concern?). We don’t want out libraries privatized; the company does not make their books public, is for-profit, and has no incentive to spend. Sort of like an HMO; you keep what you don’t spend. A private company based across the country would choose our books for us; they don’t know the community, don’t know what we read–all they can do is mass order best sellers. Santa Clarita already has fine book stores. We don’t need another one. You will NEVER be able to match the great service L.A. County provides. I LOVE the Valencia library; my kids practically grew up there, under the guidance of credentialed librarians. I get articles sent to me, I can get books transferred from about 100 other branches FOR FREE, my mother uses the Books By Mail, and I even got my passport done at the Valencia branch. Our libraries are the best thing going in this community. BTW: do you or anyone on the City Council ever actually USE the libraries? Other than some ribbon cutting ceremony….
  51. CurlyJuly 22, 2010 at 9:30 am
    I was going to ask Christie L.’s question, to paraphrase, just how many city council members are actual library patrons? Do they check out books? Do they even have library cards? What would Jan Heidt think of this I wonder?
  52. Darren HernandezJuly 22, 2010 at 8:18 pm
    I’m writing to respond to some comments made above. Continued Access to Collections: Today I discussed SCLC with several city librarians. They indicated the SCLC system works well and the vast majority of the time, in their experience, the system works efficiently and quickly. Protection of Library Tax Revenue: State Law absolutely requires that the library property tax revenue that would be transferred to Santa Clarita “…shall be allocated to and used to maintain library services….” It is incorrect to state Santa Clarita could use library funds for purposes other than library services. Santa Clarita’s libraries would not have to compete with other services for budget allocations because State law restricts and protects library funds. Library Budget Cuts: While it certainly is possible state funding could be cut in the future, this very year the LA County Public Library impposed severe cuts to library services in other areas of the county. The Whittier Daily News and the Pasadena Star News reported the LA County Public Library budget was cut by $8.8 million, that many of their libraries are being close for a day or two each week, and that they eliminated the Adult Literacy program to save $500,000. Terri Maguire, deputy county librarian, said “if some air conditioning unit dies that wasn’t supposed to die for another five years, we’re out of luck.” She also said “if too many (computers) die at the same time, we may have to reduce the number of computers for the public.” Once again, while other agencies cut library services, Santa Clarita plans to open our libraries on more days, to keep them open for longer hours, to increase the annual book budget by 22% to buy more books, to provide continued access to collections, and to staff the libraries with employees capable of providing at least the same level (or higher) of library services.
  53. ChristieJuly 23, 2010 at 5:31 am
    One more thing Darren; you said “Today I discussed SCLC with several city librarians”–you mean you’ve been pushing this thing and only TODAY made an effort to actually talk to someone about it!?!? And you wonder why people are against your hostile takeover?!
  54. Darren HernandezJuly 23, 2010 at 8:07 am
    No, Christie. Yesterday I spoke with a few city librarians to confirm my understanding of the issue. No, I did not wait until yesterday to talk to someone about SCLC. Given the concerns expressed I felt it was important to reconfirm my understanding, which those city librarians did.
  55. JeffJuly 23, 2010 at 8:46 am
    Christie: Darren doesn’t have to answer our questions here. By all means, continue to ask questions but please do so in a respectful manner.
  56. CurlyJuly 22, 2010 at 9:58 pm
    WHY is the City pushing for this? WHO is behind it and WHY? I can think of only one answer…control of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
  57. ChristieJuly 23, 2010 at 5:27 am
    You conveniently still sidestep the real issue:It’s all about SERVICE: County has not touched any of our local libraries. They’re still open the same # of hours So quit harping on air conditioners and computers. We don’t want a private, FOR-PROFIT company OR you running our libraries. You STILL will not admit that we will have to pay to have books sent to our local branches, and you STILL haven’t answered the question about the YOUR use of the library. And what about the City Council members? Maybe if you walked across the street to Valencia and actually took a look at what they have to offer…better you should spin your wheels coming up with more parking for that branch.
  58. E. Kylie AnneJuly 23, 2010 at 5:33 am
    I’ll tell you why there’s a big City push…somebody needs their name on a building. “Everybody got the runs for glory.” Paul Simon
  59. DexterJuly 26, 2010 at 10:01 am
    As a small business person, I am distressed to see that seeking a profit is such a bad thing. You make it sound as if business that provides a good service/product is bad? It’s time for unions and their political bosses to step aside and let the City run their own libraries and make local decisions.
  60. Margaret Donnellan ToddJuly 23, 2010 at 6:46 am
    Just to correct a misunderstanding of the City, the County budget did suffer significant cuts but those cuts do not affect the City of Santa Clarita Libraries. Further, I attended a meeting of SCLC yesterday and spoke with many Directors. SCLC is a wonderful organization and I am a strong supporter, but the many experienced Directors I spoke with, all agree that intralibrary loan (sharing materials within a multibranch library system) such as the County system is much different than interlibrary loan (sharing of materials by different jurisdictions) with SCLC. Also, the City needs to understand that State funding is not guaranteed – we are extraordinarily lucky that the State has not taken SCLC funding. I hope that day never comes, but we need recognize the risk. As for protection of funding, I stand by my statement that a city can find a way around the provision that requires funds to go to library service and cities have done just that. A city must provide library service but there there is no requirement as to the level of service.
  61. Darren HernandezJuly 23, 2010 at 9:00 am
    1. My comment yesterday was “this very year the LA County Public Library imposed severe cuts to library services in other areas of the county.” There is no misunderstanding (and no misstatement) on my part. While the county library did not cut services locally this year, there is no guarantee that they won’t make cuts next year given their ongoing budget difficulties. Under city operation, though, it is guaranteed that our local library revenue will remain in Santa Clarita and, by doing so, we can open our libraries on more days and for longer hours, and increase the annual budget for books by 22%. 2. There are different legal provisions for a city to create a public library where none is currently established (Section 18900 et seq of the California Education Code) and for a city to withdraw from a county public library and assuming responsibility for providing public library services (Section 19100 et seq of the California Education Code). If the City Council decides to operate the City’s libraries it would do so pursuant to the provisions of Section 19100. Section 19116(b) provides that upon withdrawing from the county library “an amount of property tax revenue equal to the property tax revenues allocated to the county free library pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 96) of Chapter 6 of Part 0.5 of Division 1 of the Revenue and Taxation Code in the fiscal year prior to the base year and that were derived from property situated within the boundaries of the withdrawing entity shall be allocated to and used to maintain library services by the withdrawing entity in the base year and, adjusted forward, in each fiscal year thereafter at the same time allocations are made pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 96) of Chapter 6 of Part 0.5 of Division 1 of the Revenue and Taxation Code.” Courts have consistently held that the word “shall” imposes a mandatory requirement; therefore, this language requires that Santa Clarita must use this revenue “to maintain library services.” Knowing this requirement, I’m surprised by the inference that the Santa Clarita City Council could (or would) find ways to circumvent the requirement imposed by the Legislature that this revenue be shall be used for library services. Once again, Santa Clarita plans to open our libraries on more days, keep them open for longer hours, and increase the annual book budget by 22%.
  62. Saugus SplasherJuly 23, 2010 at 11:40 am
    It sure looks like Hernandez and the city have been doing their homework. He answered nearly every serious question (and even most that were silly, picky or rude). From what I can discern in some ways things will be better (more hours and books) and in some ways different (interlibrary borrowing may sometimes be slower), but it doesn’t sound like the change would make things worse. My question is this: why is the county librarian, from her office far away in Downey, so worked up about the city wanting to run the libraries the city paid for? Why is she spending so much time writing letters to the editor in the Signal and posting comments on SCVTalk? My gut says it’s because they don’t want to lose a cash cow.
  63. MikeJuly 23, 2010 at 11:53 am
    He has not answered all questions, in particular those regarding loan fees and how success will be measured. To clarify, there will not be more books available. There may be more books in the local buildings, but we will lose the overall county catalog. As such, we will have far fewer books available. That alone will be an enormous, detrimental change. The city has yet to articulate exactly what is broken in the current situation that needs fixing.
  64. WalkerJuly 23, 2010 at 3:47 pm
    This. Another huge concern, the fate of the unincorporated residents of the SCV. The thought that the city might (and it sound like *will*) move forward with this take over without a plan in place for our unincorporated neighbors is disgusting.
  65. mikeJuly 23, 2010 at 11:55 am
    my name is my name! use an initial or something!
  66. Mike&sup2July 23, 2010 at 4:57 pm
    Is this better?
  67. mikeJuly 23, 2010 at 9:42 pm
    that’s more perfect than I could have hoped for. on the web, it’s lost, but it looks just as it should in my rss reader. thank you.
  68. Jeff SandersJuly 24, 2010 at 7:23 am
    I’ve been closely following this discussion, and I have no problem with the City investigating a better way to do things for us. But it seems that the City is pushing this too hard BEFORE a public hearing, which makes me suspicious. I did look into that company LSSI (because you know the City can’t afford to run the libraries themselves, and we don’t need another commission), and what I found was pretty scary. The services they offer are nowhere near what County is already providing; we would have to pay for all the books we order that are not already on the shelves. And I order at least 20 books a week from the Valencia branch. They do get cooperative agreements with lots of other libraries, but I found out all that means is we will have to actually GO to each of those libraries to check out books. That just won’t work for me. We would also lose all of those County databases, the electronic books, and their reference services (and they’ve helped me a lot with some questions they couldn’t answer locally). I wonder about the summer reading program; my children love it, but who would run it? Every time we’re at the library, it seems there are hundreds of kids running around. I don’t think LSSI would provide a children’s librarian, like County does. That’s how a profit making company makes money; they cut staff. And speaking of staff, does anybody actually know what would happen to our library staff? Has County said for sure they will transfer them? Otherwise, if they stayed to work for LSSI, don’t they lose their County benefits? From what I’ve read, I’m totally opposed to the City taking over the library. County is doing a fine job.
  69. Saugus SplasherJuly 24, 2010 at 7:36 pm
    We should think about the kids and families in Newhall and Canyon County who get smaller libraries that have shorter hours and are closed (closed?!?) on Sunday. Many families depend on libraries for lots of services, including access to the internet. These families will benefit from the changes but you won’t hear from them on SCVtalk. We should be willing to wait a few more days for books to arrive if that means families in Canyon Country and Newhall can get more access to library services. I’ve ordered books from outside the county public library system and, no, you don’t have to go to other libraries to get the books, they deliver then to your local library. Why lie about this to scare people? The city said it wouldn’t charge to borrow books from the county public library but (oh no!) it might take a few more days to get some books. How tragic! Forget about Canyon Country and Newhall, it’s all about me me me!! Children’s programs? Our city spends more on programs for kids than they do for police. The city’s programs are the best around. I bet they’ll have lots of great library programs for kids. Like I said yesterday, if the county librarian is writing letters to the Signal and lurking on SCVtalk, it’s because she doesn’t want to lose a cash cow, especially when the county library is slashing its budget.
  70. Jeff SandersJuly 25, 2010 at 10:21 am
    There are no lies or scare tactics here. If you ordered books from “outside the county public library system” then that is called an inter-library loan. It’s true that the book would be brought to your local branch. And you would have had to pay $3 for EACH book you requested. When you “transfer” a book between branches, there is NO charge. Did you know you can order 50 books–yes, FIFTY books –for no charge? Did you know you can search ALL the County library branches from only one catalog? And you can get ANY book you want sent to you. The only thing I’ve read so far is that the City said we would “have access” to County books. If we go to a City plan, we will be out of the County delivery loop. Being closed on Sunday is not the end of the world. Valencia IS open on Sundays, and is only about 3 miles from Newhall, and 5 from Canyon. [Grocery stores used to be closed on Sundays, and nobody starved.] Did you know the Canyon Country branch is undergoing a massive remodel? COC moved out of all those classrooms, and the library is expanding into that space. Perhaps the County librarian is responding here because it’s another way to reach the public. Personally, I’m glad to see her respond to our concerns; I do not see that she is “lurking.” It’s her JOB to know what is going on and to respond. I certainly hope The Signal will interview her, after all these postings. I didn’t know the SCLS was run by the State. Is anyone really sure we can count on them to be there to support us? If the State is willing to take from education, the elderly, the sick and the poor, where do the libraries rate? County has had cuts, but our local libraries go untouched. Same hours, same great services. I get 10 pages of free printing, I get all my books and articles, and my kids can get their books. I don’t know how much the County spends on children’s programs, nor do I now how much is spent on sheriffs (we do not have “police”)–but I am betting the sheriffs come first. County is a sure thing; they’ve been in the library business for more years than our City has existed. I say keep at it!
  71. Charlene K.July 25, 2010 at 11:09 am
    Actually, waiting a few more days for a book WOULD be a problem. I’m thinking of all the students who can’t afford books. We depend on the library. The local branches might not have 30 copies of Great Expectations, but they can GET 30 copies in a week, and often less, at no expense to us. Students need their books so they don’t get behind in a class. As far as children’s programs, I agree the Park and Rec department puts on some fantastic ones. But the library programs involve reading. The library has real librarians who know all about reading levels, and can make educated suggestions as to titles that are appropriate for a certain age. The children’s librarian at the Newhall branch — MY branch– has been of great help to me in choosing books for a boy who hates reading. She’s been an invaluable resource. I vote to keep County; I don’t care about Sunday hours at my Newhall. Valencia is open and it’s not that far. I can get the same good services there.
  72. SterlingJuly 24, 2010 at 11:53 am
    Jeff Sanders You are right on the money with your remarks. I will second your concerns completely.
  73. pattisoulJuly 24, 2010 at 10:29 pm
    I say, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. This is a serious issue but let’s have some fun with it. Librarians Do Gaga http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uzUh1VT98 In a July 22 post Curly pondered whether City Council members are library patrons, do they have library cards, do they actually check out books? My respectful answer is, that’s none of your business. Librarians fought the Patriot Act’s provision which would have allowed the government to observe our library habits. A privatized library might not protect the privacy of its users. I don’t want the government knowing what I read or if I don’t. Just say,”No”, to the thought police! This is what can happen when the librarian knows your business. Watch The Insulting Librarian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTE-ig7NhY&feature=related A City owned, privatized library will likely pay staff lower wages and fewer benefits. This is what happens when librarians are overworked and underpaid. Watch The Librarian Lays Down the Law http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzbDdgWiaS0&feature=related Saugus Splasher suspects that the County librarian is spending time weighing in on this issue because the County doesn’t want lose a cash cow. I think it’s more likely she’s interested because librarians don’t want to lose their J-O-B-S! Wouldn’t you fight for yours? This is what happens when REAL librarians lose their jobs. The Gorilla Librarian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukJmF6f0JdQ&feature=fvw For the 30+ years I’ve lived here, the County PROFESSIONAL librarians who serve the SCV have been great. Show them some love. The Librarian Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB4HvVEMFig&feature=related Checking out books from a privately run library might start out free but later there’s no guarantee. The Old Spice Man Talks About Libraries (when the books were free) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu-KBxOtJxs&feature=player_embedded Personally I think it was a lot better when the military peeled their own potatoes (think Beetle Bailey) and washed their own sheets. Something’s terribly wrong when troops are paid less than 30 grand a year and Haliburton makes billions. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
  74. MarieJuly 26, 2010 at 1:27 pm
    Sorry, it’s broke and it needs fixing. It’s time the taxpayers of Santa Clarita reviewed the current library policies and funding decisions made by County bureaucrats. Let’s stop the nonsense and keep the discussion to the facts. Librarians who work for LSSI are paid generous salaries and benefits packages – including a matching 401K program.
  75. pattisoulJuly 26, 2010 at 4:23 pm
    An earlier post mentioned volunteers at privately run libraries. Who would volunteer for a for-profit business? Not me. I’m happy to volunteer for non profit service oriented organizations like schools and the Emergency Winter Shelter. If the library company needs more bodies to provide the necessary services to library patrons then they can hire them!
  76. MartyJuly 26, 2010 at 4:27 pm
    I say amen to that. Let’s keep our libraries non-profit. I don’t want some private company making $ off a public entity. We need volunteers in so many other places.
  77. MartyJuly 26, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    I don’t see what’s broke and in need of fixing. We get all the services we want. Check out the Moorpark Library, that was taken over by LSSI. I believe they only have 2 databases, and their book selection is poor. I called them, and they said on average, it takes a month to get a book from another library. County is doing a splendid job. BTW: my wife USED to work for LSSI, and no, she did NOT get paid a generous salary with benefits, and the 401K was not matching. The County librarians aren’t getting rich, that’s for sure. I’m just glad that County still hires real librarians, not the “associates” and “technicians” that LSSI uses.
  78. FloydJuly 26, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    It’s very funny to see so many county library staff posting their spin against the city. They don’t care about better service for Santa Clarita, they just want to keep on taking too much of our money and providing too little service. In defense of poor little Moorpark, here is some interesting data: 31% of the Moorpark library staff has a master of library science (MLS) but only 21% of the Los Angeles County Library staff has a MLS. (Source: California State Library).
  79. CharleneKJuly 27, 2010 at 6:41 am
    Floyd, I’m not library staff, and I think the County gives wonderful service. I can’t think of anything else they could provide. And Newhall is getting a library that looks to be bigger than Valencia, Canyon is currently expanding, and Valencia just got remodeled. The math you presented is very skewed. The County has far more branches than Moorpark, so yes, that would change the figures.
  80. Jeff S.July 27, 2010 at 6:47 am
    I’m also not employed by the library, and my postings are not spin. My family loves the services we get. I don’t want to see our libraries privatized; businesses make profits, libraries shouldn’t. That way they are accountable to us.
  81. MartyAbbyJuly 27, 2010 at 7:41 am
    My husband should have clarifed his posting. Yes, I used to work for LSSI. But NO, I have never worked for L.A. County libraries. From the libraries I have worked in, I can tell you that L.A. does offer a huge array of services that no private company can match.
  82. Reader18July 27, 2010 at 9:22 pm
    Floyd has really funny math – - the Moorpark Library can’t have more than 15 employees, and the County has thousands of staff members: people to shelve the books, people to check out the books, and people to help us find the books. I’ve spent a lot of time at the libraries around here, and I’m glad that we have librarians: they’ve helped me with research for college, and given suggestions on new titles that I might like. Much better service than a bookstore would or could give me! If the City of Santa Clarita wants to make the County accountable, why don’t they simply ask for a more detailed accounting of where our money goes. Perhaps something a little more specific: Hours are one thing – and I think that there are enough between the three libraries, but I just care about books on the shelves and staff to help me find them. If the City Council thinks that the County needs to provide more for the money spent, then ask them for more staff and more books!
  83. MartyAbbyJuly 31, 2010 at 9:19 am
    You’ve got it right, Reader18. Open doors do not equal service.

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