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May 10, 2011· scvtalk.com · WordPress (SCVTalk 3.0) · Wayback capture

HSR FUD IN SCV

By Jeff — Jeff Wilson

So I’ve been trying to figure out why there appears to be a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt about the news that we might get a high speed rail line + a station in the SCV. Just last week, Gail Ortiz, fretted over whether HSR would impact our “lifeblood,” the I-5, that freeway that backs up every morning even when banana trucks aren’t crashing on it.

“The 5 is our lifeblood.We don’t want to see that lifeblood jeopardized for something that could be pie in the sky.”

And then Marsha McLean, the look of confusion and uncertainty on her face evident even as I read her quote in today’s Signal, stuttered out this strange response to the news:

An awful lot needs to be looked at and needs to be explored. Eventually, they would have to have improved transportation to and from planned stations.That would mean enhanced transportation for both Amtrak and the Metrolink.”

So what’s the reason for the confusion? Why is Palmdale worried sick about losing their station while our officials fret over the train system’s impact on, of all things, single passenger cars? Why is Santa Clarita fumbling what could be a golden opportunity to “spur tourism, give businesses a wider pool of workers to choose from” and help grow our local economy, all things that can come from an HSR system according to a study by the US Conference of Mayors?

Well I figured it out. We in the SCV just aren’t familiar with trains. I mean, we were, way back in the day. Back in the day when the Saugus Depot was an actual train station and not just a field trip for 3rd graders. Back in the day when we had high-profile train robberies and Golden Spikes.

But no longer. We’ve largely divorced ourselves from trains in the SCV. Did you know there used to be a train line that went from Santa Clarita all the way to Ventura? A train to the beach, in effect? Yeah, well we tore that *&^# up and paved over the tracks with Creekside and McBean.

Apart from the 1000+ people in the SCV who daily ride the Metrolink, I’d venture to say that few in the SCV know what a train actually is, let alone high speed rail.

Here, let’s find out if you are a victim of train misconception. Read the statement below then close your eyes and visualize what it means.

Train travel is a fun, effortless, scenic and carefree way to travel.

Do you see this?

Or this?

Train stations can become economic, cultural and transportation hubs for entire communities

Do you see this:

An embedded YouTube video appeared here in the original post. View the original — embeds are preserved as links in this archive.

or this?

If you read either statement and answered it with the former, then you may have misconceptions about what a modern, high speed train system and station can do for a community. In short, this ain’t your daddy’s 20th or 19th century train system. It’s a system that, once built-out, can free you from having to drive every day to work. Free you from being frisked by randy TSA agents at the airport on your business flight to the Bay Area. Allow you to do things other than dodge banana trucks while you travel (like play with your iPad or interact with your family). Free you from filling up your car with $4/gallon gas.

The SCV Chamber is right on this count. The City should get behind this proposed Grapevine alignment study post-haste and stop worrying about the impact on the already obsolete I-5. If the suburban naysayers and planning pundits are right, communities like our’s aren’t going to be very attractive in the future unless we have mass transit projects like the HSR system.

Comments (39)

  1. NFICMay 10, 2011 at 12:01 pm
    I must agree with you Jeff. The ironic thing is that the OVOV touts public transit and bike riding like crazy (mostly because in spite of the City’s spin, traffic will become much worse) but yet you have Gail Ortiz and Marsha McLean fumbling on this topic… That said, California, as developed today is nothing like Europe with its dense city centers and easy to connect to local transit options (i.e.: train stations under or next to subway stations). Heck, we can’t even share cars on the Orange, Blue, Red and Green lines, the terminals don’t match up and our politicians can’t figure out that a line needs to go into LAX.
  2. Bill ReynoldsMay 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    I agree with NFIC. Personally, I don’t think anyone should get their panties knotted up over this issue. Considering KaliFonia’s disastrous debt, the Dems mismanagement of our state and given that for 40 years there a Palmdale International Airport plan was kicked around… well, I just don’t see this happening in our lifetime. Not even Master Blogger Jeffrey’s lifetime.
  3. JayceMay 10, 2011 at 2:54 pm
    Brown should raise taxes record levels like Reagan did to get us out of this mess
  4. ToddMay 10, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    Dems mismanagement? Wasn’t our governor o the past 7 years carrying the flag of the pachyderm? Just checking. Thumbs down for not having your facts straight.
  5. Bill ReynoldsMay 10, 2011 at 2:41 pm
    Uhhhh, Todd…. hasn’t our state been dominated by the Democrat Party, like forever!? Just Checking. Wasn’t our RINO Governator married to a liberal of the highest order? Just checking. Thumbs down for your “head in the sand” syndrome.
  6. yourwebguruMay 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    Wow! It wasn’t so long ago some Republicans were discussing changing the constitution to suit a potential presidential bid for ‘The Governator,” now he’s being branded a liberal? Tisk tisk, how quickly we forget…
  7. PetzMay 11, 2011 at 3:31 am
    Maybe the RINOs………but not the conservatives.
  8. mikecMay 10, 2011 at 7:19 pm
    California has had more GOP governors than democrats….
  9. KLBMay 10, 2011 at 1:23 pm
    Love the this-or-that pictures. That video sort of reminds me of what the red line is like during morning rush hour at Union Station.
  10. spineflower2May 10, 2011 at 1:30 pm
    One advantage of a SCV station is that it opens it up to all of the Ventura/Santa Barbara area, since there is a passenger right of way all along the SC River (even those areas in LA County wher ethe tracks were ripped up).
  11. PetzMay 10, 2011 at 1:38 pm
    So while Obama is spreading the wealth around on 19th century modes of transport, he and the first lady will be taking time out to enjoy the poetry of Common. Class nad dignity are not hallmarks of this president or his administration. Spiking the football and doing the Icky shuffle on the backs of America. 2012 can’t get here soon enough.
  12. Bill ReynoldsMay 10, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    And don’t forget that heavy duty tax paid Brazil vacation where the Messiah lavishly praised Brazil’s oil exploration while stifling USA oil production and USA job expansion.
  13. Bill ReynoldsMay 10, 2011 at 2:48 pm
    And this just in: Liberal Lizard Lovers killin’ USA oil production: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/10/saving-dunes-sagebrush-lizard-kill-oil-production/
  14. yourwebguruMay 10, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    Indeed, Petz! All the while Republicans are fighting the “green dragon” in an effort to maintain their TWENTIETH century modes of transportation. Go get ‘em, tiger!
  15. PetzMay 11, 2011 at 3:35 am
    Common is a thug who has celebrated cop killing-the assassination of George W Bush, and a mysoginist. He should not be in The White House and the Obama’s are showing their true colors again. Jeff, you have got some really sick people who visit this forum.
  16. NateMay 11, 2011 at 4:00 am
    Do tell us more what else Dennis Prager thinks about hip-hop. How is it that Republicans are now self proclaimed experts on hip-hop? These are the people who said “what kind of man doesn’t like ketchup on his burger.” The complaining about anything and everything Obama does distracts from legitimate questions that should be posed to this white house.
  17. PetzMay 11, 2011 at 6:30 am
    Prager has been of the air getting his back fused.
  18. MikeMay 11, 2011 at 4:21 am
    What’s next? Gangster rapper Young MC? The thug life sounds of De La Soul? I hope Obama is never is the same room as the notorious rap duo, Audio 2. I’m torn, do I send you a link to Common’s anti-abortion song, or do I send you the clip of him freestyling from Jeremiah Wright’s pulpit?
  19. MikeMay 11, 2011 at 4:53 am
    Petz, I think this video sums it up well. I should caution you, there are depictions of grand theft auto and rebellion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW3PFC86UNI
  20. NateMay 11, 2011 at 5:15 am
    Accusations of mysoginism from the party of mysoginism is too RICH!
  21. TaTonkaMay 10, 2011 at 1:56 pm
    Are there any high speed rail lines in the world that are profitable? How does high speed rail compare to an electric bicycle in energy consumption? I once heard that a 747 is more fuel efficient than an amtrak train. (not sure of the validity of that but I will look for some data)
  22. David KMay 10, 2011 at 3:08 pm
    High Speed Rail turns a profit, even in America. The Acela Express and Northeast Corridor (slower service on same Boston-Washington line) are Amtrak’s most profitable lines. After the Northeast, according to a report done by America 2050, LA-San Francisco and LA-San Diego have the highest potential for HSR ridership in the country. While the infrastructure costs will be high to begin with, I believe that California HSR will have an operating profit. I dont know about the exact energy consumption, but you cannot compare American trains to European/Japanese/Chinese high speed rail. Amtrak trains are tanks compared to international trains. Since our only high speed line, the Acela Express operates on the same tracks as slow speed passenger and freight trains, the Federal Railroad Administration requires them to be much heavier than international high speed rail trains in order to withstand a collision. The per-car weight of an Acela train is twice that of a Japanese N700 Shinkansen train. Since California HSR is planned to run on dedicated tracks (as long as NIMBYs in the Bay Area don’t get their way), they will be able to use lightweight cars.
  23. TaTonkaMay 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm
    David, Thanks for the response. You do realize that the profit made by the acela is because they dont have to figure in capital investment? Would there be profit if they had to spend 40 billion putting down new rails for it to travel on? Your other example does not make a profit. http://stevenbirnspeaks.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/amtrak-high-speed-rail-a-giant-waste-of-money/ http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/amtrak/subsidies
  24. David KMay 10, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    As I said in the other thread, why is rail held to a different standard than our roads or airports when it comes to profitability? User fees (gas taxes) pay for barely half of the cost of highways in America, yet nobody is complaining when our taxes go towards funding highway construction. http://www.humantransit.org/2011/01/do-roads-pay-for-themselves.html Infrastructure costs money, and it is the responsibility of government to pay for it. If it was profitable, then the private sector would be jumping at the opportunity to build rail, roads and airports. The truth is that when it comes to handling our growing population, it is cheaper for California to invest in a high speed rail system than to spend money widening I-5 and adding runways to our airports. Doing nothing isnt an option, we have to invest in infrastructure for the future.
  25. NateMay 10, 2011 at 3:59 pm
    Now if we could just privatize these blood sucking wars… Our financial troubles would be over!
  26. spineflower2May 10, 2011 at 4:05 pm
    We come close with all the outsourced logistics from Blackwater, et al…
  27. NateMay 10, 2011 at 4:09 pm
    We privatized our dirty work there.
  28. IHeartSCVMay 10, 2011 at 2:53 pm
    Mr. J-to-the-Wilson, I thought you were being ironic in your opening, apeing the “you oppose because you are ignorant” argument that is used to dismiss library critics–well, critics of the City’s positions in general. I know you’re partly just poking fun (the caricatured photos you picked are pretty hilarious) but I contend that one can know the HSR and hate it just as easily as one can know it and love it.
  29. JeffMay 10, 2011 at 3:12 pm
    It didn’t work for you eh? I linked to the Mayor’s conference study partially for your benefit figuring I’d lead you to the water/kool aid. But seriously, I get the feeling people don’t know what we’re talking about when it comes to HSR. Why else would they dismiss it out of hand as “20th century” transportation, as if the jetliner/airport & car/freeway models weren’t also 20th century transportation systems? At the very least a good train system would get some % of people out of their cars, thereby reducing particulate and carbon emissions, which people interested in biology and habitat should appreciate. All the better if such a system has a stop in our town.
  30. CCMay 10, 2011 at 3:36 pm
    Just in case it is a ticket option, I would prefer riding on top of the train like they do in India rather than being stuffed into some guys armpit like Japan. Just sayin’
  31. lvogelMay 10, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    I enjoy trains while vacationing. When I’m not in a hurry to get somewhere, the metro/train is the best way to go. However, I don’t like being dependent on that mode of transportation. It often takes longer to get to and from a persons place of business using public transportation than using a personal vehicle; at least that’s been my experience. There is a certain independence when you don’t have to live by a schedule and you can come and go when you want/need. The last thing I want to worry about if my child is ill, is how quickly can I get home. My son will be going off to college next year and we’ve told him that he’ll not be taking his automoble; he will be taking the metro home on weekends if his studies allow him to get away. It will take a couple of hours each way (with one transfer in L.A. ), but he will not need a car while he’s on campus. There’s a bus service for students if he wants to get into town, and frankly the train ride home would be more adventurous and less dangerous than traveling on some highways. I’m all for rapid transit and I don’t see why the problem with having a station here in SCV. I don’t see any negatives with a high speed rail system.
  32. lstaedtlerMay 10, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    I’m all for HSR but Jeff I think you have some misconceptions on who would be using the system. HSR stations should be viewed more closely related to an airline terminal than a Metrolink station. From the research I’ve been reading, security would be more like an airport and pricing would be similar to flying. This would not be for short commutes such as Santa Clarita to Union Station. Sure there would be a few who do it, but it would be price prohibitive for many. Now dont get me wrong, I think HSR would be good for Santa Clarita and any other City that gets a station, but its not going to provide traffic relief on daily commutes on the 5 but would be a good alternative to airports.
  33. Venturan (NDMay 10, 2011 at 7:09 pm
    What’s your source? I’ve taken the Eurostar from UK to Paris and back, same day. The pricing is a third of the equivalent flight and security is nothing like an airport, much more streamlined, and I was flying in and out of Heathrow on that trip. It works incredibly well.
  34. lstaedtlerMay 10, 2011 at 9:40 pm
    California High Speed Rail is my source. Their business plan is assuming fares are at 83% of airfares.
  35. Venturan (NDMay 11, 2011 at 7:27 am
    What about the security aspect? Do you have a link? Thanks.
  36. NateMay 11, 2011 at 7:37 am
    ND always on point. Thumbs Up.
  37. Bill ReynoldsMay 10, 2011 at 4:46 pm
    HSR could be simply awesome for “Awesometown” unless it’s gov’t operated. KaliFonia does NOT need another money pit.
  38. NFICMay 11, 2011 at 6:27 am
    Lets talk a bit about the cost versus roads – The cost to add just one carpool lane on the northbound 405 through the Sepulveda pass is $1 billion. The High Speed Rail cost was estimated a few years back at $45 billion and Wikipedia shows $65-80 billion. The nice thing about High Speed Rail is that it is scaleable. Not so much with adding a carpool lane. I’d vote for High Speed Rail when comparing these costs. And by the way, taxpayers are paying for those road projects and they also contribute greatly to airport improvements.
  39. PetzMay 11, 2011 at 7:26 am
    Petz is not prepared to comment on a rumored pending announcement at this time. but thanks for asking.

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