Melissa Brown to stand trial for vehicular manslaughter

By Linda

Well over a year after the July 4, 2010 accident which claimed the life of Matilde Garnica Juarez, the driver who allegedly ran a red light has been charged with vehicular manslaughter and will stand trial.

This morning’s Signal article by Jim Holt contains a list of Melissa Brown’s prior traffic citations, including two for speeding and two for failure to stop at a stop sign or red light. We also learn that Brown’s blood contained trace amounts of Vicodin and THC, although in such small quantities that there are no plans to present evidence of this at trial.

At the preliminary hearing on Tuesday, Brown’s lawyer requested that the judge dismiss the case against his client for insufficient evidence, which was denied, as was the follow-up request that the charge be reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor. At the conclusion of the proceedings, Brown broke down in tears and left the courtroom sobbing.

I have a lot less sympathy for Brown now that I’ve read of her previous traffic violations and am glad that the charges were not reduced. While it is possible that she was tired and distracted and this was just a horrible accident, clearly she has shown a pattern of disregard for traffic laws and needs to face the consequences of her actions. I hope Jim Holt will continue to follow the trial.

Comments (32)

Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 8:12 am

Two things: Now we know why no plea deal could be worked out. With 4 moving violations in just a little over two years this young girl was completely out of control. (For example, I get a speeding ticket about once every five years and I break the speed limit in some fashion EVERY time I get behind the wheel.) Doe anyone else find it a little bizarre (and someone sexist) that Jim Holt described what the defendant was wearing?

ScottEAugust 17, 2011 at 8:53 am

Well, if it was A&F then, yes. However, if it was was Steven Alan or comparable .. in Santa Clarita .. definitely newsworthy.

MikeAugust 17, 2011 at 8:58 am

Jim’s a feature writer at heart and he’s just using techniques of that form. Seems a little odd in a short piece like this, but he’s observant and paints the picture well.

LindaAugust 17, 2011 at 8:54 am

I think the description of how she was dressed was appropriate and revealing, especially since there were no photographs. How many college-age students do you know who wear knee-length skirts? (Especially dope smoking, red light running college students?) I’m betting the skirt was purchased for the court appearance.

Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 8:58 am

But the question remains: Would Jim Holt have noted what a male defendant was wearing, even if they were also dope smoking and red light running?

MikeAugust 17, 2011 at 9:31 am

All men dress the same in court, unless they don’t. If they don’t, I think he would. Especially if it were an ironic trucker hat. That’s a bad move.

NateAugust 17, 2011 at 4:10 pm

Speculation

JasonAugust 17, 2011 at 9:28 am

Without doing any research, I feel like it’s standard fare to note what the defendant is wearing regardless of their sex. From prison garb to Armani, readers often like to know.

CCAugust 17, 2011 at 10:00 am

Wow, this girl needed a shake-up and tickets weren’t doing it for her. Now a family tries to live on without a mother. She needs to get the book thrown at her as she has obviously gotten away with her past behavior way too long. It’s a tragedy that someone else had to pay the ultimate price. The relevance for what she is wearing is the same for what Tim is wearing right now. I’m guessing boxers.

MikeAugust 17, 2011 at 10:12 am

The important thing is that Tim wears his lucky hat tonight. #FVSC

Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 10:41 am

Boxer briefs!

lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 12:07 pm

I hope that this is a wake-up call to many of the parents of young drivers out there. This hit especially close to home for me. Several years ago I went to the door of a family that lives in our neighborhood. They have 2 daughters, one of which drives very fast in our small community. Many parents griped and moaned about her driving habits, but no one ever said anything. There are many kids in this area and with its many cul-de-sacs, often has children playing in the streets. One day several of us were outside watching the kids, when this girl came around the corner at a very high speed and had to slam on her breaks. The other parents yelled for her to slow down and complained to each other, but again did nothing. I took it upon myself to go to the home of this girl. When her mother answered the door, I told her the concern that many of us have and she exasperatedly said she doesn’t know what to do. She knows her daughter drives too fast and she has already gotten a couple of tickets, but she can’t control it. I was amazed, and quite frankly astounded. I could think of plenty of ways to control it (if she were my kid), but it was not my place to give advice, but rather advice her of the concerns her neighbors had. Why does this story hit home? I left this woman’s doorstep with these words: “I hope for your daughters sake and your family’s, that she doesn’t end up hurting or killing someone because of her reckless driving”. It’s not uncommon for a persons attire to be described while appearing in court. I have even read where a ‘male’ defendants appearance has been described by reporters. Also, it is very common for lawyers to instruct their clients on how to dress.

Need for Involved CitizenryAugust 17, 2011 at 1:02 pm

I live off a street where there have been historical speeding and accident problems. One weekend a few years back, a 16 year old Robinson Ranch resident came down the street at an estimated 60 mph (25 mph speed limit), lost control, did a 360 and literally separated the axle from a small Ford SUV that was parked in the rolled gutter and the area that serves sort of as a walking path. The 16 year old driver also had a couple friends in the car (not allowed due to his age). Well, naturally someone called the Sheriffs department to report the accident. By then, the father of the kid was there to try to “fix” the problem. He pleaded with the owner of the hit car to not file a formal report while I encouraged her to do so because of the seriousness of the accident and the need for historical tracking of accidents on the street. In the end, he talked her into not filing a report. I remember the father saying to me “You’ve got a couple of young daughters – some day you may be in this predicament and will want a break for something like this.” I retorted with “Your lucky your kid didn’t wipe out a couple of people walking down the street or you would be worried about whether you have enough insurance coverage to keep you from losing your house!” The kids in our valley 9 times out of 10 have help with either the acquisition of their car or the insurance or both and the parents are taking a significant risk if they don’t pull the car when the kid is not driving responsibly.

LindaAugust 17, 2011 at 1:34 pm

NFIC, your name says it all. Melissa Brown, her victims, and the entire city would be better off had her parents done what they could to get her off the streets after her first offense. No doubt she had help paying for the car and insurance thanks to mom and dad.

NateAugust 17, 2011 at 4:02 pm

Does Linda write anything without rampant speculation.

LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 9:29 pm

Assuming you are who I think you are, thanks for getting involved in OUR neighborhood and making the problem known to the parents. Didn’t you almost get hit on McBean too? My wife almost got t-boned tonight pulling out at the same intersection. People drive way too fast sometimes, if they are adults there is not much you can tell them. If they are kids, we owe it to everyone else to say something to the parents. Too many people are afraid to get involved in anything.

lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 9:54 pm

Well LarMcc, if you are referring to Village Homes North, then I am who you believe I am…I think? Yes, a couples years ago while walking my dogs across mcbean, at OUR stoplight, a car sped through the red not long after stepping off the curb. Thankfully it was behind me, otherwise my dogs would surely have been hit. It took us a long time to get a light there, yet we still must be careful when pulling out even with a green.

LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 10:10 pm

Yep, that’s what I was referring to. I was just recalling that story this morning as we walked the kids to school. My older one wants to bike to school and crossing McBean is the only thing that worries me. The answer is still no at this point. The person today never even saw my wife or slowed down. And the light was green for her several seconds. For some reason she hesitated. I almost got hit there in my car a few months back too. We had a speeder on our street too. One of my other neighbors saw him and confronted him. No problems since then. This was also the same kid that I know was leaving trash in the middle of the street (drink cups, etc.). Once I was certain it was him, I pounded on the door with the trash to hand to him and told him next time there was garbage thrown in the street, I would be a lot more angry than I was then. That problem resolved itself and all has been quiet since. I am not sure what I am in for when mine start driving, but the first complaint I get from another parent would spell big trouble for them.

lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 12:22 pm

Is Jim Holt the ‘crime’ reporter for the signal? I have a comment about his latest reporting. A Canyon Country man was shot in the shoulder, and the only description of the perps given was 2 males in a white honda; why? Did the sheriffs not provide any more information than that? Did the victim not see the gunman? A pizzeria in Newhall was robbed and the only description was a male in a grey hoodie. Was the robber white, latino, black, asian, etc…? Again, no description just a grey hoodie? I wonder if there were more information given, if someone may have seen something or remembered something about both crimes that may help our local law enforcement apprehend the suspects?

ToddAugust 17, 2011 at 1:19 pm

Often times, that is the extent of the description. The law enforcement agencies want that info (as sparse as it may be) to get out in the public… to help generate other potential leads. “2 white males in a Honda” – Oh yah, I saw some guys like that in that neighborhood about 15 minutes before that looking sinister at the gas station. What gas station do you ask? The Mobil on Soledad and Sierra. Now, the cops have a lead. Check the video tape. Did two white guys in a honda roll in there around then? If so, what is their license plate? Check the video tape! Did they use a credit card? Check the card history… And so on and so on. You’d be surprised how often “a white male in his 30′s” turns into a solid lead and then an arrest.

LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 9:52 pm

Lila Littlejohn from the signal has already addressed this. She said that the signal as a matter of policy follows some sort of journalism recommendation that a persons race normally not be printed in the article. The reasoning is that is does not contribute to the story and fans stereotypes or some other nonsense. I have told them that if the police are looking for someone, they need to print every piece of information released. You never know when some little detail will jog someones memory and an arrest can be made. In checking a more thorough new source, KHTS, the shooting suspects were both black and the pizza robber was white. God forbid someone post this info in their comments section at the signal because they will remove it or turn off commenting for the article entirely. There is a real problem in our country with certain races dominating the suspects in many violent crimes. I guess it’s better to suppress this and not talk about it so nothing will be done. I really cannot figure the signal out. Are they anti-police or what? I remember the martial arts instructor accused of touching a girl. The police were actively seeking more victims and had put his picture, name and where he worked out there. The signal decided to omit all of this and ignored the request for assistance. I am sure if the city council made a request for help with something, they would all fall over each other trying to get it done to their liking. We know some council members cringe at too much talk about crime in this valley. I am surprised they even printed stories about the shootings.

RemStarAugust 17, 2011 at 2:13 pm

In the past the Big Giant Head, Coastal Sage and others have stated or implied (even gleefully gloated) that this tragic accident was the result of negligence on the part of the city. But with her many moving violations it was just a matter of time before this driver killed someone, even absent a fireworks display. Wait, wait. What am I thinking? Must … always … blame … city … hall ….

LindaAugust 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm

Someone (Tim?) did post that if a criminal case is pursued, the likelihood of a successful suit against the city is less. So the criminal charges being filed are a point in the City’s favor…. Of course, they could still decide to settle the case to save the expense of litigation.

Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 3:07 pm

Linda: You are right. This is the concept of “intervening criminal act” where someone who may have some basic civil negligence gets off the hook because they could not foresee the intervening criminal act. Now California (and most states now use the concept of comparative negligence) so say the total damages of the accident are $2 million. A jury could assign negligence proportionally, say, 20% for the deceased (sitting too close to the street), but 70% for Melissa Brown (running the red light and prior history of bad driving), which would then leave 10% assigned to the City, so only liable for $200K. This makes the case look less and less likely to “pay,” which makes one wonder why Jeff Hacker took it on so enthusiastically.

SCV SageAugust 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm

Most likely there would not be enough insurance to cover these types of situations other than an auto liability policy. Typically a homeowner’s insurance policy would NOT cover this situation — only an umbrella liablity policy would. Most folks do not have enough insurance to cover these situations. Most parents have no clue what they may be liable for should their teenager/20 something year old run amuck, particularly if they have allowed that youngster to use the family vehicle. These folks need to be removed from using vehicles, whether intentionally, negligently or while impaired, as a dangerous weapon which can maim and kill. The remedy would be for the responsible parent to take the car and keys away and force that youngster to use alternatives such as mass transportation, a bike or being picked up/delivered by a more responsible adult. I hold both the youngster and “adult” responsible.

lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 2:32 pm

Actually Todd, was nothing in the news report indicating what ethnicity they were. Only that they were two males in a white honda. http://www.the-signal.com/section/36/article/49655/ Who knows, perhaps the robbery at the pizzeria were the same punks that shot the canyon country man; the robbery took place at 10:30 on Lyons and the shooting took place at around 11:45, on the same evening. Both involved guns. The problem is the only description we have of the pizzeria hold up is that the guy (male) was wearing a grey hoodie. Wonder if the victims of both crimes gave a better description. I don’t want to be hard on Mr. Holt 0r his writing, because I don’t know how much information he was given in these instances, but it would be nice if the public had more information other than the fact they were male.

ToddAugust 17, 2011 at 2:55 pm

My bad. Didn’t read the article, and put the word “white” in front of males instead of Honda. Regardless, police release what they know to try and generate more leads. When they don’t know much, they really need those additional leads.

lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 3:00 pm

I find it hard to believe that in both cases the victims could not describe even the ethnicity of the suspects; only a white honda or grey hoodie? I don’t think so; I believe the sheriffs are doing a better job at asking questions and getting answers, than that….well at least I hope they are.

ToddAugust 17, 2011 at 3:11 pm

You’re on to them. Its a giant CONSPIRACY! Pass the tin foil. Seriously, numerous studies have shown that unless you’re actively looking to remember details, there are things that happen in front of you all the time that you won’t ever remember. In these studies, participants would not be expecting that something like a crime was about to happen, then one would be staged, and then the participants would be asked to describe what they saw. Black was white, Red was orange, 6’3″ was 5’9″. . Next time you’re shot, tell me how much time you spend ducking for cover and how much you spend looking for the details on the perps. Me? I’m ducking for cover the whole time. Dead men tell no details.

lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm

Okay, you have a point regarding the drive by shooting, and the sarcasm is noted. However, when a guy is robbing you and speaking, I would suspect that you’d remember something about him other than a grey hoodie. I hope neither of us are victims of a shooting, btw.

LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 9:55 pm

The police did release the details. The signal chose to omit these. I have also seen actual articles that were posted containing suspect descriptions and they were updated with the races removed. My personal favorite was a crime bulletin posted by the sheriff’s department. The signal reprinted it word for word EXCEPT they took out every reference to the suspects race.

ToddAugust 18, 2011 at 7:10 am

Then I must stand, errected. I looked it up, and it appears as if SPJ has in fact made the recommendation to omit race in crime reporting. Shame. When describing a suspect outstanding, I see that (and so did they for a long time) as good reporting. Once they’re apprehended, it sould obviously be omitted, as its not particularly relevant.

Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 8:12 am
Two things: Now we know why no plea deal could be worked out. With 4 moving violations in just a little over two years this young girl was completely out of control. (For example, I get a speeding ticket about once every five years and I break the speed limit in some fashion EVERY time I get behind the wheel.) Doe anyone else find it a little bizarre (and someone sexist) that Jim Holt described what the defendant was wearing?
ScottEAugust 17, 2011 at 8:53 am
Well, if it was A&F then, yes. However, if it was was Steven Alan or comparable .. in Santa Clarita .. definitely newsworthy.
MikeAugust 17, 2011 at 8:58 am
Jim’s a feature writer at heart and he’s just using techniques of that form. Seems a little odd in a short piece like this, but he’s observant and paints the picture well.
LindaAugust 17, 2011 at 8:54 am
I think the description of how she was dressed was appropriate and revealing, especially since there were no photographs. How many college-age students do you know who wear knee-length skirts? (Especially dope smoking, red light running college students?) I’m betting the skirt was purchased for the court appearance.
Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 8:58 am
But the question remains: Would Jim Holt have noted what a male defendant was wearing, even if they were also dope smoking and red light running?
MikeAugust 17, 2011 at 9:31 am
All men dress the same in court, unless they don’t. If they don’t, I think he would. Especially if it were an ironic trucker hat. That’s a bad move.
NateAugust 17, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Speculation
JasonAugust 17, 2011 at 9:28 am
Without doing any research, I feel like it’s standard fare to note what the defendant is wearing regardless of their sex. From prison garb to Armani, readers often like to know.
CCAugust 17, 2011 at 10:00 am
Wow, this girl needed a shake-up and tickets weren’t doing it for her. Now a family tries to live on without a mother. She needs to get the book thrown at her as she has obviously gotten away with her past behavior way too long. It’s a tragedy that someone else had to pay the ultimate price. The relevance for what she is wearing is the same for what Tim is wearing right now. I’m guessing boxers.
MikeAugust 17, 2011 at 10:12 am
The important thing is that Tim wears his lucky hat tonight. #FVSC
Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 10:41 am
Boxer briefs!
lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 12:07 pm
I hope that this is a wake-up call to many of the parents of young drivers out there. This hit especially close to home for me. Several years ago I went to the door of a family that lives in our neighborhood. They have 2 daughters, one of which drives very fast in our small community. Many parents griped and moaned about her driving habits, but no one ever said anything. There are many kids in this area and with its many cul-de-sacs, often has children playing in the streets. One day several of us were outside watching the kids, when this girl came around the corner at a very high speed and had to slam on her breaks. The other parents yelled for her to slow down and complained to each other, but again did nothing. I took it upon myself to go to the home of this girl. When her mother answered the door, I told her the concern that many of us have and she exasperatedly said she doesn’t know what to do. She knows her daughter drives too fast and she has already gotten a couple of tickets, but she can’t control it. I was amazed, and quite frankly astounded. I could think of plenty of ways to control it (if she were my kid), but it was not my place to give advice, but rather advice her of the concerns her neighbors had. Why does this story hit home? I left this woman’s doorstep with these words: “I hope for your daughters sake and your family’s, that she doesn’t end up hurting or killing someone because of her reckless driving”. It’s not uncommon for a persons attire to be described while appearing in court. I have even read where a ‘male’ defendants appearance has been described by reporters. Also, it is very common for lawyers to instruct their clients on how to dress.
Need for Involved CitizenryAugust 17, 2011 at 1:02 pm
I live off a street where there have been historical speeding and accident problems. One weekend a few years back, a 16 year old Robinson Ranch resident came down the street at an estimated 60 mph (25 mph speed limit), lost control, did a 360 and literally separated the axle from a small Ford SUV that was parked in the rolled gutter and the area that serves sort of as a walking path. The 16 year old driver also had a couple friends in the car (not allowed due to his age). Well, naturally someone called the Sheriffs department to report the accident. By then, the father of the kid was there to try to “fix” the problem. He pleaded with the owner of the hit car to not file a formal report while I encouraged her to do so because of the seriousness of the accident and the need for historical tracking of accidents on the street. In the end, he talked her into not filing a report. I remember the father saying to me “You’ve got a couple of young daughters – some day you may be in this predicament and will want a break for something like this.” I retorted with “Your lucky your kid didn’t wipe out a couple of people walking down the street or you would be worried about whether you have enough insurance coverage to keep you from losing your house!” The kids in our valley 9 times out of 10 have help with either the acquisition of their car or the insurance or both and the parents are taking a significant risk if they don’t pull the car when the kid is not driving responsibly.
LindaAugust 17, 2011 at 1:34 pm
NFIC, your name says it all. Melissa Brown, her victims, and the entire city would be better off had her parents done what they could to get her off the streets after her first offense. No doubt she had help paying for the car and insurance thanks to mom and dad.
NateAugust 17, 2011 at 4:02 pm
Does Linda write anything without rampant speculation.
LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Assuming you are who I think you are, thanks for getting involved in OUR neighborhood and making the problem known to the parents. Didn’t you almost get hit on McBean too? My wife almost got t-boned tonight pulling out at the same intersection. People drive way too fast sometimes, if they are adults there is not much you can tell them. If they are kids, we owe it to everyone else to say something to the parents. Too many people are afraid to get involved in anything.
lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 9:54 pm
Well LarMcc, if you are referring to Village Homes North, then I am who you believe I am…I think? Yes, a couples years ago while walking my dogs across mcbean, at OUR stoplight, a car sped through the red not long after stepping off the curb. Thankfully it was behind me, otherwise my dogs would surely have been hit. It took us a long time to get a light there, yet we still must be careful when pulling out even with a green.
LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Yep, that’s what I was referring to. I was just recalling that story this morning as we walked the kids to school. My older one wants to bike to school and crossing McBean is the only thing that worries me. The answer is still no at this point. The person today never even saw my wife or slowed down. And the light was green for her several seconds. For some reason she hesitated. I almost got hit there in my car a few months back too. We had a speeder on our street too. One of my other neighbors saw him and confronted him. No problems since then. This was also the same kid that I know was leaving trash in the middle of the street (drink cups, etc.). Once I was certain it was him, I pounded on the door with the trash to hand to him and told him next time there was garbage thrown in the street, I would be a lot more angry than I was then. That problem resolved itself and all has been quiet since. I am not sure what I am in for when mine start driving, but the first complaint I get from another parent would spell big trouble for them.
lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 12:22 pm
Is Jim Holt the ‘crime’ reporter for the signal? I have a comment about his latest reporting. A Canyon Country man was shot in the shoulder, and the only description of the perps given was 2 males in a white honda; why? Did the sheriffs not provide any more information than that? Did the victim not see the gunman? A pizzeria in Newhall was robbed and the only description was a male in a grey hoodie. Was the robber white, latino, black, asian, etc…? Again, no description just a grey hoodie? I wonder if there were more information given, if someone may have seen something or remembered something about both crimes that may help our local law enforcement apprehend the suspects?
ToddAugust 17, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Often times, that is the extent of the description. The law enforcement agencies want that info (as sparse as it may be) to get out in the public… to help generate other potential leads. “2 white males in a Honda” – Oh yah, I saw some guys like that in that neighborhood about 15 minutes before that looking sinister at the gas station. What gas station do you ask? The Mobil on Soledad and Sierra. Now, the cops have a lead. Check the video tape. Did two white guys in a honda roll in there around then? If so, what is their license plate? Check the video tape! Did they use a credit card? Check the card history… And so on and so on. You’d be surprised how often “a white male in his 30′s” turns into a solid lead and then an arrest.
LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Lila Littlejohn from the signal has already addressed this. She said that the signal as a matter of policy follows some sort of journalism recommendation that a persons race normally not be printed in the article. The reasoning is that is does not contribute to the story and fans stereotypes or some other nonsense. I have told them that if the police are looking for someone, they need to print every piece of information released. You never know when some little detail will jog someones memory and an arrest can be made. In checking a more thorough new source, KHTS, the shooting suspects were both black and the pizza robber was white. God forbid someone post this info in their comments section at the signal because they will remove it or turn off commenting for the article entirely. There is a real problem in our country with certain races dominating the suspects in many violent crimes. I guess it’s better to suppress this and not talk about it so nothing will be done. I really cannot figure the signal out. Are they anti-police or what? I remember the martial arts instructor accused of touching a girl. The police were actively seeking more victims and had put his picture, name and where he worked out there. The signal decided to omit all of this and ignored the request for assistance. I am sure if the city council made a request for help with something, they would all fall over each other trying to get it done to their liking. We know some council members cringe at too much talk about crime in this valley. I am surprised they even printed stories about the shootings.
RemStarAugust 17, 2011 at 2:13 pm
In the past the Big Giant Head, Coastal Sage and others have stated or implied (even gleefully gloated) that this tragic accident was the result of negligence on the part of the city. But with her many moving violations it was just a matter of time before this driver killed someone, even absent a fireworks display. Wait, wait. What am I thinking? Must … always … blame … city … hall ….
LindaAugust 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Someone (Tim?) did post that if a criminal case is pursued, the likelihood of a successful suit against the city is less. So the criminal charges being filed are a point in the City’s favor…. Of course, they could still decide to settle the case to save the expense of litigation.
Timothy Myers SRAugust 17, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Linda: You are right. This is the concept of “intervening criminal act” where someone who may have some basic civil negligence gets off the hook because they could not foresee the intervening criminal act. Now California (and most states now use the concept of comparative negligence) so say the total damages of the accident are $2 million. A jury could assign negligence proportionally, say, 20% for the deceased (sitting too close to the street), but 70% for Melissa Brown (running the red light and prior history of bad driving), which would then leave 10% assigned to the City, so only liable for $200K. This makes the case look less and less likely to “pay,” which makes one wonder why Jeff Hacker took it on so enthusiastically.
SCV SageAugust 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Most likely there would not be enough insurance to cover these types of situations other than an auto liability policy. Typically a homeowner’s insurance policy would NOT cover this situation — only an umbrella liablity policy would. Most folks do not have enough insurance to cover these situations. Most parents have no clue what they may be liable for should their teenager/20 something year old run amuck, particularly if they have allowed that youngster to use the family vehicle. These folks need to be removed from using vehicles, whether intentionally, negligently or while impaired, as a dangerous weapon which can maim and kill. The remedy would be for the responsible parent to take the car and keys away and force that youngster to use alternatives such as mass transportation, a bike or being picked up/delivered by a more responsible adult. I hold both the youngster and “adult” responsible.
lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Actually Todd, was nothing in the news report indicating what ethnicity they were. Only that they were two males in a white honda. http://www.the-signal.com/section/36/article/49655/ Who knows, perhaps the robbery at the pizzeria were the same punks that shot the canyon country man; the robbery took place at 10:30 on Lyons and the shooting took place at around 11:45, on the same evening. Both involved guns. The problem is the only description we have of the pizzeria hold up is that the guy (male) was wearing a grey hoodie. Wonder if the victims of both crimes gave a better description. I don’t want to be hard on Mr. Holt 0r his writing, because I don’t know how much information he was given in these instances, but it would be nice if the public had more information other than the fact they were male.
ToddAugust 17, 2011 at 2:55 pm
My bad. Didn’t read the article, and put the word “white” in front of males instead of Honda. Regardless, police release what they know to try and generate more leads. When they don’t know much, they really need those additional leads.
lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 3:00 pm
I find it hard to believe that in both cases the victims could not describe even the ethnicity of the suspects; only a white honda or grey hoodie? I don’t think so; I believe the sheriffs are doing a better job at asking questions and getting answers, than that….well at least I hope they are.
ToddAugust 17, 2011 at 3:11 pm
You’re on to them. Its a giant CONSPIRACY! Pass the tin foil. Seriously, numerous studies have shown that unless you’re actively looking to remember details, there are things that happen in front of you all the time that you won’t ever remember. In these studies, participants would not be expecting that something like a crime was about to happen, then one would be staged, and then the participants would be asked to describe what they saw. Black was white, Red was orange, 6’3″ was 5’9″. . Next time you’re shot, tell me how much time you spend ducking for cover and how much you spend looking for the details on the perps. Me? I’m ducking for cover the whole time. Dead men tell no details.
lvogelAugust 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Okay, you have a point regarding the drive by shooting, and the sarcasm is noted. However, when a guy is robbing you and speaking, I would suspect that you’d remember something about him other than a grey hoodie. I hope neither of us are victims of a shooting, btw.
LarMccAugust 17, 2011 at 9:55 pm
The police did release the details. The signal chose to omit these. I have also seen actual articles that were posted containing suspect descriptions and they were updated with the races removed. My personal favorite was a crime bulletin posted by the sheriff’s department. The signal reprinted it word for word EXCEPT they took out every reference to the suspects race.
ToddAugust 18, 2011 at 7:10 am
Then I must stand, errected. I looked it up, and it appears as if SPJ has in fact made the recommendation to omit race in crime reporting. Shame. When describing a suspect outstanding, I see that (and so did they for a long time) as good reporting. Once they’re apprehended, it sould obviously be omitted, as its not particularly relevant.